Driver 'embarrassed' after assault posted on YouTube

mark wrote:

I am a driver and a cyclist.
Frankly the standards of peoples driving is becoming worse, I drive a quick car though I will only drive it hard when the situation allows it.
When the situation calls for lower speed and calmer driving ie through a village I will comply without going stupidly slow.
That still does not stop arrogant motorists clambering all over my bumper on such occasions, so I am not suprised cyclists feel threatened, there are too many clowns on the road unable to appreciate the road is for cyclists, cars and pedestrians crossing.

15 Nov 2011 6:00 PM

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Ken wrote:

What a sad and weak discussion.

One guy thumped another for no reason. He was caught, fined £400 and ordered to pay £100 costs. The fact that the thug was a motorist and the victim a cyclist is mere detail as is the death of John Nicholls mother.

So to those of you trying to excuse, explain or justify this criminal's behavior I would ask you to stop and think. You may one day encounter someone who becomes infuriated with the colour of your shirt or the way you scratch your nose or maybe they are just hacked off after a bad day at the office. Will you defend that person if they vent their frustration by punching you?

Just in case Mr Nicholls' advocates have missed the point my question is rhetorical.

05 Aug 2011 12:54 AM

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pat wrote:

Put my picture on the internet and I will see you in court. There's something like privacy.
--No, not even a picture on TwitterFaceThings--
Ok, I'll drink to that.

02 Aug 2011 12:07 PM

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billy wrote:

92 comments and for what to rave about a video?
the man hasnt done right as he has punched someone, but my car is my pride and joy. i wouldnt want someone touching it they can just use signals...both are in the wrong.

to the person that took the video and posted it to youtube, far play you have made him look like a yob but also you have show-cased you didnt intervene and you could have stopped the incident... maybe less time on video maker and more time looking and helping.

01 Aug 2011 10:46 PM

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Wilmington cyclist wrote:

I live in Wilmington, just around the corner from the guy in the Peugeot. I cycle through Bexley Village every day to get to work and know this narrow stretch of road well. It only starts to widen just after Ferrari's restaurant where the cyclists and car driver have stopped. If the cyclist could slap the car then the car was too close and Peugeot driver deserves his £400 fine and exposure on youtube. I think I'll buy a helmet cam.

31 Jul 2011 11:02 PM

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Lionel the (Respectful)Cyclist wrote:

Hear Hear Robster: This is just another bully and it's great to see him named and shamed. But has he the intelligence to feel shame? Where there's no sense......
The toerag!

30 Jul 2011 8:32 AM

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Robster wrote:

And so he should be embarrassed, the idiot is just a cretinous thug. Had I been the Judge, he would have got a year in the cooler to sort himself out, and a driving ban for 2-3 years.

29 Jul 2011 8:35 PM

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Paul Jakma wrote:

First of, I'm a motorist and I cycle.

Road tax doesn't exist, it's called VED, and it's taxed according to class of vehicle and emissions. It doesn't pay enough for the roads anyway. *Everyone* pays for the roads, through general taxation - such as VAT, NI & income tax. So *everyone* owns the roads. *All* cyclists have a *right* to use the roads. However, *nobody* has a right to drive a car - it's a privilege which granted under licence, on condition they drive safely.

Indeed, the cyclist in this article was a barrister and so almost certainly a high-earner. He probably pays a *lot* more tax than nearly all the people commenting here. He may well have a car, an expensive one that costs lots of VED per year. So, by the bogus logic of some of the blinkered anti-cyclists here, the cyclist in this article has *far more* right to be on the road than they or the man who assaulted him have.

Regarding insurance, some cyclists actually have this. Particularly the more serious types.

As for red-light jumping, yes, cyclists who go through red-lights are wrong - *especially* if they jump pedestrian lights. That said, if you stand by any set of traffic lights and count who jumps them, the biggest culprits around here are cars, by far. Many car drivers these days seem to treat yellow as "Hit the gas, try beat the light!". Invariably, many of them end up sailing through red lights at speed. But you don't hear motorists going on about that, now do you? Never mind that a tonne or more of car doing 30 to 50mph has about 100 times *more* kinetic energy than a cyclist (presuming the cyclist is going fast) - making the red-light jumping car *way* more dangerous. I've never heard of a cyclist killing anyone by jumping lights, but there's plenty of cars that have.

It's just daft to say cyclists are a danger on the roads. It flies in the face of all statistics. By far the biggest danger to those in and around the road is from motor vehicle traffic.

To read comments here from people saying they deliberately cut up cyclists is just staggering, I have to say. If cyclists can be a little bolshy with car drivers, well it's cause of attitudes like that. While the vast majority of car drivers are responsible, patient and friendly - there's a small minority of car drivers who take quite frightening risks around cyclists, either through ignorance or sometimes even deliberately (e.g. as "A Car Nut" says he does). E.g. by close-passing, without changing lane, or overtaking and then jamming on the brakes (e.g. cause there's red lights or a traffic jam ahead - so why bother overtaking?). If you only drive around protected by a big metal box it may be a little difficult to understand, but when you're a cyclist and fairly regularly have drivers try knock you off, you tend to get a bit paranoid and be easy to get worked up.

Finally, car drivers, around town it's not cyclists slowing you down. It's congestion from other cars and the traffic lights. Cars might hit higher speeds in spots, but the average speed in dense urban areas is unlikely to be at all faster than a cyclist. Indeed, the cyclist can easily be faster than you! When you travel into town, cyclists are doing you a favour: you've got less congestion, and *more* car parking spaces free than if those cyclists drove (and many cyclists *could* drive!).

Slow down, calm down.

PS: Scooby, it sounds like you managed to really anger those cyclisst. While you may be an innocent victim of cyclist rage, I'd be curious to hear their side. Is it possible you perhaps *should* have seen them, that perhaps you ought to have been more careful reversing onto the road? Particularly as you note you reversed onto a more major road? Even if those cyclists weren't justified in what they did, it does sound from your own description that there may some improvement to make in your driving, no?

29 Jul 2011 5:17 PM

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not_from_kent wrote:

@pat
it's true, it's as if the dutch would prefer people to use their bikes rather than their cars, what a weird concept! i would much rather have no choice than to drive a car and wait for the current road capacity to be exhausted, wait for new capacity, wait for that to fill, wait for more capacity, etc. rather than have a strategy that would help reduce the number of cars on the roads
and it's true that we only have 25 cyclists which is one of the reasons why our kids are the unhappiest in europe :-P

29 Jul 2011 10:57 AM

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Penny wrote:

Chathamrocket;

Do you get a lot of neck ache? It must be quite tiresome carrying that halo around.

29 Jul 2011 8:03 AM

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Jonathan wrote:

@ Roger Meeagan @ haha

Having a good relationship are you?

28 Jul 2011 4:41 PM

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pat wrote:

Beste Dutchie (Dear Dutchie),
We may be sods but our country is not as flat as Justine's front and so not really fit for cyclists.
Tax money should be used for the cops, not for our 27 green cyclists. 25 now because one's got a flat tyre and the other a flat nose.
Lots of cash went into Dutch cycling paths but main roads are one long tailback.
There's more violence in the comments than during the published part of the incident itself. I'll drink to that.

28 Jul 2011 1:41 PM

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haha wrote:

Oooh Jonathon, you are such a big men....oooh i bet you have lovely big biceps too you super duper stud!

in all fairness...plank!

28 Jul 2011 1:39 PM

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Roger Meeagan wrote:

@Jonathan

You big girls blouse!

28 Jul 2011 1:25 PM

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Dutchie wrote:

You poor English sods. All the roads in Holland have bike paths, so the cyclists don't come in contact with cars.

About time your gov't did something similar with your taxes.

28 Jul 2011 12:41 PM

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chathamrocket wrote:

@ Jonathan: Your most recent comment kind of validates my earlier comment about you. (And your passenger).

28 Jul 2011 11:48 AM

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A Car Nut wrote:

The debate about Tax, licencing and insurance is a tad daft.
VED is different to 'old' road tax, and as it goes by emissions thus cyclists would obviously pay nothing, & as their impact on the road (in terms of wear) is negligable, it'd be silly. Similarly, licencing a self-propelled 'vehicle' such as a cycle would cost more that it's worth to organise - where would you draw the line between a 12-year old who uses it occasionally and a commuter?
Lastly, we have National Insurance for a reason, and a decent cyclist wouldn't get themselves into a position where they feel the need to scrape/damage a car anyway.

Like I previously said (below), I hate bad cyclists - as a cyclist myself I see them all too often. But as a car lover first and foremost (who spends a fortune keeping various cars on the road/taxed/insured), my concern when peddaling is my own safety, and not impeding any car drivers. Cycle by those rules and - like me - you almost never get into scrapes, save for the odd div who has a Clarksonesque view of ALL cyclists.

28 Jul 2011 11:34 AM

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chathamrocket wrote:

@ Jonathan: You, and your 'passenger' are cretins.

28 Jul 2011 10:56 AM

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Jonathan wrote:

I was pleased to see a cyclist get a clump to be honest.

There are far too many holier-than-thou proud to be cyclists on the road.

They ignore traffic signals, cut cars up, damage cars and then peddle of into traffic and of course they pay NO road tax, NO insurance, and contribute nothing yet they feel that they own the road.

I have had a car damaged once by a cyclist in london who just peddled away, and on another occassion I had a cyclist thumping my window with his fist because he couldnt get down the inside of me, gladly my passenger wound the window down and emptied a bottle of cherry-coke over the cretin.

Cyclists need to remember who it is who PAYS for the upkeep of the roads and show motorists some respect.

Cyclists should be MADE to have insurance and penalised if they dont.

28 Jul 2011 8:56 AM

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chathamrocket wrote:

Penny's ironic spelling of 'intellect' will stay with me for a long time. The day irony died, right enough.

As somebody posted below, this yahoo looks exactly like one of the Acourt brothers, sunken shoulders, pastel shirt tucked outside jeans, *attitood*, etc etc. In the Medway towns you could throw a stick and hit ten such idiots. To use a dead mum as leverage was cynical to the extreme. If I'd been the judge in this case I would have given him six months for even trying it.

28 Jul 2011 12:07 AM

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chathamrocket wrote:

Penny's ironic spelling of 'intellect' will stay with me for a long time. The day irony died, right enough.

As somebody posted below, this yahoo looks exactly like one of the Acourt brothers, sunken shoulders, pastel shirt tucked outside jeans, *attitood*, etc etc. In the Medway towns you could throw a stick and hit ten such idiots. To use a dead mum as leverage was cynical to the extreme. If I'd been the judge in this case I would have given him six months for even trying it.

28 Jul 2011 12:05 AM

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Rich wrote:

I'm sort of with John here. I bet this lump only got out cos he had his mates with him. Would he get out alone? No! Interestingly the other fat lump got out but did nothing. These types make me laugh.

27 Jul 2011 8:35 PM

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John wrote:

I wonder if idiot who punched the cyclist, would have done the same , if a hells angel had tapped on his car. a note to the wise, if you are feeling very stressed, for whatever reason, do not drive, the car, the reasoning is, that many pple use a car to improve and boost thier ego, if an attack, however minor, is recieved on their car, they will take that as an act of aggression, if you notice the other character, dressed as a lumberjack, gets out of the car, but hesitates, as he is unsure, of the abilities of the cyclist, and the driver, then backed up by said lumberjack, launches the assault, this could have all been avoided if the idiot driver, would have simply hung up his keys for the day. you cant commit road rage, if ur not driving,its that simple.

27 Jul 2011 7:09 PM

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Anon wrote:

What a nasty piece of work this man is. Embarrassed and remorseful? I doubt it. And as for using his mother's death as an excuse: lame and disrespectful.

27 Jul 2011 6:34 PM

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AntiFascist wrote:

@Penny

...and those who make pointless, banal comments on the internet.

Oh.

27 Jul 2011 6:21 PM

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Just grow up wrote:

Have any of you thought about the following:

*You get poor cyclists/car users/lorry drivers/tractors
*Car users don't pay road tax

Do you really have nothing better to do with your lives than spend your time on the KM site looking for things to rant about?

* If my spelling and grammar is wrong then I'm sorry, only human!

27 Jul 2011 6:19 PM

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Annoyed wrote:

Cyclists in recent years are fast becoming the worst users of the roads. Recently I had an altercation with a cyclist in the local supermarket car park. This followed an incident on a wet road when I had given him a wide berth on a nearby roundabout on the main road. We were both turning right on the roundabout with no other traffic involved. I chose to keep to the nearside lane on the road which meant I was on the outside lane through the roundabout thus giving him a wide berth on a wet road. He did no more than track we down in the supermarket carpark and had the audacity to accuse me for undertaking him when all I was doing was keeping him safe from my car. I felt like giving him a good slap for arrogance.

27 Jul 2011 4:54 PM

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Penny wrote:

There are two types of idiot's in Kent.

1) Those who drive taxi's

2) Those who ride bikes.

Both have the same amount of intelect.

27 Jul 2011 4:33 PM

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Penny wrote:

To not-from-kent

Where abouts in the world do you live where there is no violence???

Do tell...

27 Jul 2011 3:53 PM

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Penny wrote:

I think that all cyclists, in line with motorists, should have some sort of identification on their bikes, so they can be reported for dangerous or reckless behaviour. Maybe then they wouldn't be so cocky.

27 Jul 2011 3:50 PM

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M Patel wrote:

To respond to the usual (totally wrong) rants about road tax:

Firstly, there's no such thing as road tax anymore. There is car tax (it's called Vehicle Exise Duty) and - get this - it's a tax for driving your car. Many cyclists also own cars, so pay VED anyway. Road tax comes out of general taxation, so even I - who don't own a car - pay for our roads. If you don't believe me check the CTC website (I can't seem to put a link in this comment) or just google 'cycling and road tax'.

If you just don't want to admit you're wrong, then there's no helping you.

Secondly, bikes can use the road by right. Car drivers can only do so by licence. So looking at it that way cyclists have a clearer right to be on the road than cars.

I think that in general we all need to be a bit more tolerant of one another - cycle, drive and walk respectfully.

And enough of this ranting against cyclists, it's really, really tiresome. The Highway Code says that cyclists can cycle two abreast, unless on busy roads.

Finally, have you ever thought that the reason the roads are clogged up is not because of cyclists going two abreast (and this is pretty rare, and often done for safety) but because there are so many cars?!

27 Jul 2011 3:15 PM

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Steven Kealey wrote:

'tolerance towards' should actually be 'acknowledgement of' in my comment below.

27 Jul 2011 2:58 PM

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not_from_kent wrote:

wow, the comments here make me really glad i don't live in kent. in other parts of the world we have developed beyond violence for settling petty disputes. welcome to the internet though, perhaps you will learn something as it appears you can at least read. short words. :-P

27 Jul 2011 2:57 PM

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Steven Kealey wrote:

@Christian. They HELD UP TRAFFIC. Good grief, how did you ever cope with the delay? It sounds awful.

And to be serious for a minute: You are blaming the victims here and not showing a single sign of tolerance towards bad driving that can and does kill cyclists. Boo you.

27 Jul 2011 2:47 PM

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antifascist wrote:

I don't agree that cyclists are a liability or a menace. We all have a right to use the roads and we should all be respectful of those rights. After all it's not cyclists who poison the very air we breath, is it?

27 Jul 2011 2:22 PM

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Obervant wrote:

The guy can't throw a punch for toffee anyway...at best he 'wristed' him round the back of the head

27 Jul 2011 1:45 PM

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Jock wrote:

There is no smoke without fire. I can imagine the cyclist "victim" is not entirely innocent in this incident. He most probably deserved a smack in the face.

Cyclists are a liabilty & a menace. They are a bunch of delusional self righteous trouble makers who genuinely believe the roads are there purely for their own use.

It is also about time they followed the same regulations as other road users, i.e taxed, registered and insured.

27 Jul 2011 1:26 PM

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Christian wrote:

Once, as I was turning left, a cyclist came up my inside and then followed me up to a car park barrier where he proceeded to punch the front of my car saying that I "cut him up".

So I got out of my car and stood up to the lycra-clad aggressive bully. What he hadn't banked on was the driver actually being physically bigger than him. I didn't hit him, I just told him that if he did something like that again, I would quite literally kill him. (Due to his stupidity, which surely would eventually see him under somebody's car wheels.)

Cyclists - you need to respect the road and play by the same rules as the rest of us, or risk losing your lives. A smack around the head is the least of your worries when your ultra-light two-wheeled frames hit nearly two tons of metal. Use your brains, spend a little less on poncy lycra and get yourselves properly insured. The greater risk is with you guys, as you are more vulnerable, but it doesn't give you carte-blanche to damage cars, any more than it gives drivers carte-blanche to punch cyclists.

PS: my pet hate are the Sunday morning lycra brigade who insist in pretending that they are in "peleton" formation and take up most of the road. I've had such people pull out in front of me from junctions and then HOLD UP traffic so that the rest of their luminaries (quite literally) can get on with pretending that the Tour de France is just around the corner.

Cyclists rank alongside caravans for me - unnecessary obstacles on our roads which carry little or no legal obligations to the users around them.

27 Jul 2011 1:26 PM

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suzie wrote:

Hate cyclists rude, ignorant people with no respect for anyone else on the road, half the time there never watching whats going on around them, then the car driver gets abuse, well excuse me last time i looked i was driving on a road. Its the car drivers trying to be careful not to hit them while your swirving in and out of the road.

27 Jul 2011 12:29 PM

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scooby wrote:

so does this mean that when the lycra merchants are too close to motorists then we can whack there cycles coz if its ok for them etc? i hate these racing club cyclist they are sooo aggressive and i have encountered them on numerous accasions.They give no consideration for what may be round the corner and are usually corparate types that usually drive prestige cars and so have a massive infererioty complex when on them puny bikes and so ride like morons all aggressive bunched up and theink they own the road. recently i heard i my single track country back lane i live on a group of lycra merchants on a fine sunday morn shouting at my neighbour (farmer in his transit) that he was in the middle of the road and they gave him abuse on his own road within sight of his house because they came round the blind corner way way too fasy!! its a single width lane and they should have taken responsibilty for what may have been round the corner!! another time recently in yet again small country lanes i was lost and had turned in someones drive at the bottom and reversed slowly on to the road (yes shouldnt reverse onto a highway but middle of now where and quiet roads) but then from a bend in the road funnily enough that i couldnt see round came a trio of fools in lycra way to fast again and instantly shouted abuse and banged on my van and then when i drove off the said trio of grown men blocked the raod as they rode 3 abreast!!obvioulsy i had not set out that day to ambush cyclists on a country lane but by the reactions you would have thought that was the case!!! one cyclist maybe the one with the brain and also the biggest guy dropped back realising that its best not to argue yet again with a transit van whilst the other 2 with small man and lycra syndrome remained infront blocking me and my son from passing, i shouted at the big guy who was at thei point next to my sons window in the passenger seat to tell his mates to move as i wasnt in the mood for games to which he did, to no avaial , they held me back for a bit longer whilst my van bonnet was dangerously close to the back cycles wheels stupidly courting danger whils i was trapped behind and then had to go up a bank when they moved over fractionly to go past!!!they ride way too fast and too aggressive!!! why dont they just calm down and respect the road and the dangers on it !! my teenage son was shocked at grown men behaving this way and how they didnt give a second thought to banging my van and shouting abuse as if i had been there reversing just to hassle them!!

27 Jul 2011 11:29 AM

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Leigh wrote:

I lost my wonderful mother recently but do not consider that an excuse to lay into someone like he did ,he needs temper management and a prison sentence.

27 Jul 2011 10:55 AM

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someone wrote:

the driver so have been sent down for 2 mouths for causeing a traffic jam aswell

27 Jul 2011 10:13 AM

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A Car Nut wrote:

Although there is little excuse for hitting a cyclist like this (the bloke comes across as a thug), I do have sympathy.
Big groups of lycra merchants are a pain. They cycle in the middle of the road (especially in the Sevenoaks/Ide Hill/Toys Hill area), or two abreast - which whatever the highway code says, is unacceptable. Big groups pose a big risk to motorists. Try overtaking more than 3 bikes riding in succession - it's not easy, and I tend to cut them fine so as not to risk a head-on - especially when they cycle so far from the kerb (no doubt to protect their highly strung road racers). I have been very close to doing what this tool did many, many times.
On the flip side, I'm a cyclist - I cycle to work and back (12 miles each way) most days through Maidstone & the A20. I stop at red lights, rarely undertake cars - even in queues - and cycle as close to the kerb as I possibly can (having a robust bike helps). I am a driver first a foremost, and my concern when cycling is to NOT get in the way of anyone. If every lycra-clad idiot cycled by my (self imposed)rules, everyone would get along fine.

27 Jul 2011 9:53 AM

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Lennon wrote:

"All you need is love"

27 Jul 2011 9:39 AM

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Mick wrote:

A typical Kent Taxi Driver. Rude, inconsiderate and out to fleece you.

27 Jul 2011 12:36 AM

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..... wrote:

Most car users are basically complete Pr**cks when they come into contact with cyclists ! scratch there cars !

26 Jul 2011 10:31 PM

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A road user wrote:

What a nutter, a fine and a few pennies from his pocket. what a joke, justise in this country sucks, what a example he sets for the kid who watches these fully grown adults get out of a car and assult a bike rider for no real reason. top guys well done NOT.

26 Jul 2011 9:54 PM

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thegoat wrote:

cyclist are moaning PRI##s how much do the pay a year to use the roads , peasants

26 Jul 2011 9:22 PM

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Yoube wrote:

What an idiot! Hope he is ashamed of himself!

26 Jul 2011 9:03 PM

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.... wrote:

Cyclists are a pain in the a**e, rant over.

26 Jul 2011 8:48 PM

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A person wrote:

Totally shocking comments on here. Some are trying to justify violence or danger against an innocent person because they were once affected by an entirely different person.

There are bad people everywhere, on bikes, in cars, walking, and as anonymous internet commenters. Inciting hatred against all in that group (eg cyclists) because of the actions of a minority is very wrong.

26 Jul 2011 7:54 PM

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Watchingyouall wrote:

This imbecilic person jumping out the car resembles those not yet convicted criminals who were on trial at the Stephen Lawrence case some years ago... their time will come.
Shirt cuffs fastened, shirt over trousers...
Dead give-away - these "types" are always mob-handed (in a gang) - typical bunch of cowards.

26 Jul 2011 7:50 PM

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quixoticgeek wrote:

@ ...

Doing as we please? you mean cycling within the law? Perish the thought.

You are most accurate in your summation that the law does not revolve round lycra clad test1cles. However, I would suggest that a rudimentary amount of research should be done before you cast your stones. The law is there to protect us all and to make sure that the roads run smoothly and freely. No one person has more right than any other to use it, and everyone pays equally for these roads through general Taxation.

Thanks

Julia

26 Jul 2011 7:45 PM

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... wrote:

To frank01

One word...punctuation.

--------

To quixoticgeek,

What an arrogant pri*k you present yourself as. You are one of the reasons a lot of motorists despise cyclists, doing as you please on busy roads, then quoting laws and bylaws when you get injured. The world doesn't revolve around people dressed in ball hugging lycra, much as you'd like to believe it does.

26 Jul 2011 7:37 PM

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Mick wrote:

@Marc

What you forgot to mention in your rant was you do NOT own the road.

26 Jul 2011 6:37 PM

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frank01 wrote:

grieve or not you cant just go round punching people example of a man that thinks he is hard check out the strut the two have maybe people show post it on his company website see how many people use it then hope someone one day feels the need to punch him for the fun of it the man must be a child

26 Jul 2011 5:14 PM

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quixoticgeek wrote:

@katie-ann

Cyclists can legally ride upto 2 abreast, and also legally ride anywhere within the lane.

There is no obligation for a car to over take a cyclist, it is often unsafe to do so and the motorist should stay behind the bike until it is safe to do so, the same is true if you want to over take a tractor.

As previously stated there is no requirement in UK law saying that a cyclist must use a cyclepath if it is present, if the cyclist is doing more than 18mph they are advised to use the road with the cars, this is so that kids on bikes can safely use the cycle paths, without having to play in traffic.

There is never a justification for violence in this way, even a grieving man should know better than to get out of a car and hit someone.

J

26 Jul 2011 4:57 PM

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Katie-ann wrote:

driving too close?
the roads in bexley are small and when you add a bus 'as seen in the video and also a group of cyclists(who usually dont ride in single file but next to each other) you are going to have a car driving near a pavement. The car pays tax a bike dosent, a car has more priority over a bike!
Were the cyclists not using the cycle path?
I personally blame the cyclists, maybe the car was too close to them but you have cycle paths, and really was there a need to name and shame a grieving man?

26 Jul 2011 4:44 PM

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quixoticgeek wrote:

Dave,

Further to my previous comment, note that the crime of "Dangerous Driving" only applies to those driving a motorised carriage, aka a car, motorbike, van, lorry etc... It explicitly does not apply to bikes. There is a similar crime of Dangerous Cycling, however it is a separate crime. You may wish to do your background research before trying to be all high and mighty about your god given right to use her majesties highways.

J

26 Jul 2011 4:39 PM

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quixoticgeek wrote:

a) just cos everyone calls something x, doesn't mean it is x. Vehicle Excise Duty is paid on motor vehicles. What is more, vehicles with low CO2 emissions do not pay any VED. Therefore even if bikes were required to have it, they can hardly be charged more than a vehicle with low CO2 emissions. What is more, the total amount of wear and tear on the road from a bike is so minuscule as to be not worth accounting for.

b) it is recommended that you do not do 18+mph on a cycle path, on a road, you are at liberty to do what ever speed you consider safe. Further to this note that all roads are paid for out of general taxation, NOT from vehicle Excise duty. Under the UK tax system the only tax which is ringfenced for a single purpose is the TV license. All other tax comes into a single pot and is distributed accordingly.

c) When it is the judgement of the cyclist that the safest place to cycle is not in the cycle lane, then that is well within their right to not cycle in the lane. This has been proven in UK law.

d) Undertaking in traffic, or to give it the correct name of lane splitting is legal in the UK for bikes, and is codified in the high way code. If you feel hard done by by this, then I suggest you talk to your MP.

e) I agreed that cyclist shouldn't jump red lights, I stated this in my first post. However I pointed out that the result of a cyclist doing it is less than if an Audi TT jumps a red light, or a HGV does it. Don't try to imply that all motorists are saints, they aren't neither are all cyclists red light jumping Lycra louts. The same is true of pedestrians. What do you say to the thousands of pedestrians that run across roads every day requiring drivers and cyclists alike to take evasive action?

J

26 Jul 2011 4:37 PM

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Dave wrote:

@Quixoticgeek:

a) There is no road tax, there hasn't been since 1937, there is vehicle excise duty, which is entirely different. Of note, cars of low C02 output also don't pay any Vehicle Excise Duty.

Semantics. Most people call it road tax. It IS a tax to enable a car to be legally used on the road. Something cyclists are unfortunately not required to have, despite having the privilege of using the road.


b) It is recommended that cycle paths should not be used by cyclists if the cyclist is going faster than 18mph, this as it is considered dangerous to do so.

You said it. Going 18+mph on a bike is dangerous. So keep your speed down and utilise something which is solely for your use and to which car drivers have had no choice in paying for.


c) cycle lanes (marked off lanes at the edge of the road) tend to attract glass, and other rubbish that are very dangerous to a cyclist, as such it is often necessary to cycle in the main road rather than the marked off lane. Not to mention that cycle lanes typically contain a lot of pot holes and drain covers that are a hazard to cyclists

What better incentive do you need to ride safely on them then?


d) Undertaking in traffic is legal and mentioned in the highway code, it is called lane splitting, and even cars do it sometimes when the left hand lane is going faster than the right. Don't moan about bikes doing it, you just look jealous that the bike is going faster than your shiny audi

Note that the driver and cyclist were in the SAME lane, therefore undertaking is not permitted. Also, undertaking in an aggressive or reckless manner could be considered Careless Driving or more seriously Dangerous Driving. Looking at the video, it would seem the driver had nowhere else to go since there was a bus to his right, so the undertaking by the cyclist would seem to be pretty reckless.


e) Red lights, ok on this one I agree, there is very little excuse for jumping red lights on a bike, however it is fair to say that when a cyclist does this they typically only endanger themselves, not others, unlike when a motor vehicle does it.

What stupendous arrogance. What about the pedestrians who happen to be on the crossing? What about the drivers who are moving forward on a green light and must take evasive action to avoid hitting the cyclist? True, they are encased in aluminium and steel so personally protected, but the emotional turmoil of hitting and perhaps killing someone as a result of that person's actions can't be fun. And as with most RTAs, no doubt the motorist will be blamed anyway because they come out unscathed and the cyclist doesn't.

As for figures of cyclists injuring others, simply Google "pedestrians injured by cyclists" and you'll find many examples, including some deaths. Just because the government doesn't compile lists on it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

26 Jul 2011 2:52 PM

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quixoticgeek wrote:

@marc

Who checks this? the Police, any constable in uniform can check that your bike is in a roadworthy order. The same as who checks you have an MOT. The garage gives you the MOT, but it is the police who enforce that you have one.

Regarding the bell, well legally you have to have a bell, not legally you have to have a stadium horn. May I suggest that if you feel strongly about this, you write to your MP and request that the law is changed to mandate a stadium horn on all bikes, rather than a bell...

The highway code says you should be aware of cyclists coming up the inside in traffic, and that you should try to make enough space for them to do so sensibly.

Regarding your spending on cars, don't for one moment be sucked into the belief that cycling is a very cheap activity either, keeping my bikes road worthy and maintained costs a lot of money, and while in general someone might be offended enough to slap at the side of your car, on a bike it is an attack on the person rather than the vehicle. A bike can be a very vulnerable place to be, and as such it is the duty of the more powerful person (the motorist) to act in a way that does not endanger the cyclist.

Please understand that I do not excuse those cyclists who flaunt the rules, just as you no doubt find it abhorrent that there are motorists who feel they are allowed to act outside the rules of the road.

I offer to any motorist who feels that us cyclists are really the scourge of the road, to come join me for a cycle ride round Canterbury, so that you might see it from our perspective.

Thanks

26 Jul 2011 2:21 PM

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penny farthing wrote:

quixoticgeek

My daughter was actually knocked over by a cyclist who didn't want to stop at a red light, so rode up onto the pavement instead. He then drove off like a coward.

Also i think the gear the cyclists wear is equally as terrible as their cycling skills, and i'm sick of being stuck behind someone hogging the road, wearing skintight lycra shorts (mainly 'men') and having to watch their bits wobble about. Not a nice sight i can assure you.

And you are, indeed, a geek.

26 Jul 2011 2:18 PM

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Marc wrote:

@quixoticgeek

"Excellent, please can you give me stats on total number of accidents caused in the UK by cyclists jumping red lights.

Or to put it another way: [citation needed] "

If i knew where to get those stats i would!

It doesnt matter how many times its happend, ITS THE LAW and you should be following it, even if you do think you know best.

26 Jul 2011 2:13 PM

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Marc wrote:

@ quixoticgeek / Cyclist

"Regarding your points about maintaining a bike. It is law that a bike in the UK must be maintained properly to be ridden on the road, this means it must have 2 brakes (front and back wheel), reflectors on the wheels and pedals (so you can see us easier), and a bell so that we can alert people we are coming."

It may be the law, but who checks this? we have yearly checkes (MOT's) which we pay for. this is a law that is not enforced and should be.

Regarding the bell, why do you think car horns are as loud as the are? so other car users can hear them. if you want to be on the road full of cars, get a bell or horn that is fit for purpose so we (and cyclists listning to music and not paying attention) can hear it.

"The fact that a cyclist is able to slap the side of a car is indication that the car was to close, and in violation of the highway code in not giving sufficient space when over taking."

Youve got this one spot on here, maybe the cyclist needs to look at how much space there is before under taking? or do you expect car drivers to spot a bike coming and make space for him to pass? i get sick of seeing bikes squeezing up the side of cars when there isnt enough space - maybe you should wait for a change? it works both way, you give us space, were give you space.

My comment about how much we spend on cars, was based on our reaction to you feeling its your god given right to kick or hit our cars - if you kick or hit something we have spend thousands on, dont expect us to be happy about it - that was my point, nothing about our rights on the road.

26 Jul 2011 2:10 PM

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quixoticgeek wrote:

Excellent, please can you give me stats on total number of accidents caused in the UK by cyclists jumping red lights.

Or to put it another way: [citation needed]

26 Jul 2011 2:02 PM

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Marc wrote:

@quixoticgeek

" e) Red lights, ok on this one I agree, there is very little excuse for jumping red lights on a bike, however it is fair to say that when a cyclist does this they typically only endanger themselves, not others, unlike when a motor vehicle does it. "

Thats like saying its ok for me to do 140mph at 3am when no one else is on the road - it doesnt matter its still illigal!

And they do not only endanger themselves, what about the effect it will have on the driver, if at no fault of their own the cyclist is killed as a result of being hit by their car? and what about insurance, the driver would have to claim from THEIR policy. so it will affect more people than themselfs.

26 Jul 2011 2:00 PM

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@jimbo wrote:

he did Jim, and now he has been in court and given his side of the story, hence it's new

do try and keep up

26 Jul 2011 1:55 PM

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quixoticgeek wrote:

@ Marc

Regarding your points about maintaining a bike. It is law that a bike in the UK must be maintained properly to be ridden on the road, this means it must have 2 brakes (front and back wheel), reflectors on the wheels and pedals (so you can see us easier), and a bell so that we can alert people we are coming.

However, using this legally required bell to let motorists know that we are there is a bit pointless, due to the fact that most motorists are sealed in their own bubble and can't hear it. The fact that a cyclist is able to slap the side of a car is indication that the car was to close, and in violation of the highway code in not giving sufficient space when over taking.

Finally, your comment of:

"A good start would be to stop at the lights, or queue in traffic like the rest of us, and have some respect for the cars that we spend thousands every year taking care of"

Is quite simply ridiculous. Just because you spent x amount of money on your vehicle does not give you any more or any less right to the use of the road, despite what drivers of Audi's, BMW's and Mercs might think. The highway code specifically mentions that when in traffic you should be aware of cyclists coming up the inside of your vehicle, and that you should check there before moving off. The highway code at no point says you should respect the pompous a___ in the shinier car cos they spent more on it.

Kindly get off your high horse and realise how stupid what you say sounds, do some research, and perhaps, go for a bike ride, so you can see it from our side for once.

Thanks

Cyclist

26 Jul 2011 1:48 PM

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jimbo wrote:

This is old news ; the driver handed himself in to the police last week .

26 Jul 2011 1:40 PM

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quixoticgeek wrote:

To those motorists who seem to be misguided enough to berate cyclists, a few points of order:

a) There is no road tax, there hasn't been since 1937, there is vehicle excise duty, which is entirely different. Of note, cars of low C02 output also don't pay any Vehicle Excise Duty.

b) It is recommended that cycle paths should not be used by cyclists if the cyclist is going faster than 18mph, this as it is considered dangerous to do so.

c) cycle lanes (marked off lanes at the edge of the road) tend to attract glass, and other rubbish that are very dangerous to a cyclist, as such it is often necessary to cycle in the main road rather than the marked off lane. Not to mention that cycle lanes typically contain a lot of pot holes and drain covers that are a hazard to cyclists

d) Undertaking in traffic is legal and mentioned in the highway code, it is called lane splitting, and even cars do it sometimes when the left hand lane is going faster than the right. Don't moan about bikes doing it, you just look jealous that the bike is going faster than your shiny audi

e) Red lights, ok on this one I agree, there is very little excuse for jumping red lights on a bike, however it is fair to say that when a cyclist does this they typically only endanger themselves, not others, unlike when a motor vehicle does it.

Thanks

A happy law abiding cyclist

26 Jul 2011 1:28 PM

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Dave wrote:

"Car drivers need to respect cyclists"

Respect works both ways. As a driver, I respect cyclists as fellow road users, but it certainly seems that it is not reciprocated.

Cyclists, despite having cycle lanes where I live, prefer to use the road itself or even the pavement and when they DO use the cycle lane, treat them as racetracks.

They ignore traffic lights, lane-discipline and other basis rules of the road which would have car drivers up in front of the judge.

They have no third party insurance, are not registered with the DVLA, pay no road tax and can therefore leave chaos in their wake without fear of prosecution. I had to take lessons and pass a test to obtain my licence to use the highway. Cyclists merely need enough money for a bike.

Yes, I am a driver and I see other drivers do some idiotic things, but these legally-untouchable maniacs are a hazard to themselves and other road users.

"Cyclist with attitude" talks about patience. An attribute seemingly missing from just about all cyclists I see. This particular motorist obviously has anger issues, but the cyclist who, from the story, appears to have got himself up the inside of the car contrary to the rules of the road, had no right to attack the bloke's car.

Maybe car drivers should start mounting cameras on their dashboards to catch the many examples of terrible road awareness enacted by the poor, downtrodden, unappreciated cyclist.

26 Jul 2011 12:13 PM

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Motorist wrote:

@ Wheelie funny

lol!!!

However, a very valid point - wear a helmet. I have to wear one on a motorcycle so why should cyclists be any different?

26 Jul 2011 12:02 PM

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Wheelie funny wrote:

Nothing o do with the story BUT I saw the funniest thing yesterday, we were patiently following cyclists on the way home, we couldn't overtake as we couldn't see round the bend.

There was a bramble sticking out in to the road, the cyclist directly in front of us got his hair caught in the bramble!!

Hilarious

Note to man with long grey hair; tie it up or wear a helmet!!!

26 Jul 2011 11:58 AM

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Motorist wrote:

@ Marc

Well said!

26 Jul 2011 11:57 AM

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Marc wrote:

@ Cyclist with attitude

Why do you think drivers are so frustrated with you guys.

We spend to much time nowdays sat at traffic lights (even at round abouts) and you guys think they do not apply to you?

We follow highway code and only overtake on the right, whereas you guys seem to overtake on both sides and expect us to be able to look in both mirrors at the same time, overtake on the right like everyone else and you may not get cut up so much.

We spend thousands every year on:
a) Roadtax to be on the road

b) Insurance to even be parked on our drives

c) MOT's to ensure our cars are road worthy

d) Driving lessons in the first place to learn how to use the roads

e) replacement parts such as wipers and bulbs so we can see others, and they can see us.

f) Tyres so our cars grip properly and do not slide

g) Breakes so when we use them, they work.

Cyclists are not obliged by law to do any of the above, and quite often dont. this is why we are frustrated with you from the second we set off. then when you do things such as fail to break in time because your brakes dont work, or we dont see you in the ran because you dont have lights, it annoys us further.

A good start would be to stop at the lights, or queue in traffic like the rest of us, and have some respect for the cars that we spend thousands every year taking care of, dont hit them just because you dont have a horn, or because you want to overtake to get to the front of the queue.

26 Jul 2011 11:51 AM

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Motorist wrote:

@ cyclist with attitude

"BMW Drivers"???

However, I think that cyclists having insurance is a brilliant idea. All we have to do now is teach them some respect as well and the problem is sorted.

26 Jul 2011 11:38 AM

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Motorist wrote:

@ Mick

"If I had been the judge he may well have gone to prison and been banned from driving for a year and had to pass another test"

... and the cyclist?

26 Jul 2011 11:35 AM

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cyclist with attitude wrote:

Most of these comments are disgraceful and just show what a bunch of morons many motorists are. While I am also a driver as well as a cyclist -I readily realise not everyone is perfect, whichever way you're coming from.
A little more patience would go a long way. I find it's BMW drivers who get most steamed up about being delayed for 20 seconds or so by an innocent cyclist, keeping to the left and obeying the traffic regs.
These cyclists did exactly the right thing and head cameras will become more widely used to highlight this motorist's disgraceful behaviour. I would urge any semi-serious cyclist to consider joining the Cyclists' Touring Club which works to highlight bad behaviour on our roads - as well as offering third party insurance included in its annual subscription of £36.

26 Jul 2011 11:29 AM

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Mick wrote:

It is all very well saying the motorist was on his way to arrange his Mothers funeral - that is no excuse to get out of a car and punch a cyclist. I know cyclist-motorist-pedestrians can all be idiots at times what Mr Nicholls needs to learn is to be tolerant of other road users. If I had been the judge he may well have gone to prison and been banned from driving for a year and had to pass another driving test.

26 Jul 2011 11:19 AM

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Mr.Kippersmcgee wrote:

This is another, justified, reason I carry piano wire in my car. An old trick I used to use on Third Reich motorcyclists and Panzer tank commanders comes in very handy. Once they see their mate, in a particularly girly jersey, get garroted they will all think twice about a nice ride outside I can tell you.

26 Jul 2011 10:58 AM

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Motorist wrote:

God where do I start!

I was recently riding my motorcycle when I went to turn left at a junction. I was indicating, checked my mirrors and just as I was about to turn a cyclist was there.

I'll admit I did say out loud "for f*cks sake" at which point the cyclist told me I shouldv'e looked over my shoulder, called me a c*nt and spat in may face!

I admit officer it was I who kicked his bike causing him to fall in a heap - GOOD!

Just when will cyclists obey some of the rules that us other road users(including horses!) have too. If you did then you wouldn't get into so much bother.

26 Jul 2011 10:22 AM

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Marc wrote:

It looks like their is a bus pretty close to the car too, so its unlikely that the driver could have moved anymore to the right. im guessing that the cyclist was to impatient to wait in line, and decided to overtake on the left, with little space - then blame the driver

26 Jul 2011 10:16 AM

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Jim wrote:

I think its about time we started to get some of these cameras fitted to our cars to show the arguement from the other side.

Not that long ago whilst driving down that awful Luton Road in Chatham I had a cyclist cut off of the pavement in to the road and they hit the side of my car because they wasn't looking. Ok, I didn't get out and smack the guy but I did stop to exchange words. Did he offer to pay to have the deep scratches fixed? Did he heck.

I don't recall the section of the highway code that says it's ok to hit cars just because they get a bit too close, or more likely because you don't want to drop behind the car and insist on squeezing down the side when there is little room. Maybe that smack in the head will teach him a lesson?

26 Jul 2011 10:08 AM

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Most people are not fit for the road wrote:

no matter how they uses it.

The comments justifying assault and or dangerous prattery on the roads are proof of that.

26 Jul 2011 9:57 AM

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Marc wrote:

This claim also frustrates me

The statement read: “I slapped the car in order to let him know he was driving too close. I thought he was going to knock me off the bike.”

The highway code says that this is what a horn is for. My car wouldnt pass its MOT if its horn didnt work, even if i said "dont worry mate, i dont need a horn, ill slap the cars to let them know im there"

The cyclist should have a bell or a horn on his bike to let people know he is there, not hit the cars. his bike is clearly unfit for the road.

26 Jul 2011 9:49 AM

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Maverick wrote:

haha I find it highly amusing that you morons are justifying someone getting out their car and lamping someone regardless of how they were riding their bikes.

Cyclists annoy me as much as anyone else,. especially when riding in a line across the whole of a country road however it's no excuse for a brutish use of force...grow up people, you are embarassing yourselves

26 Jul 2011 9:49 AM

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andy wrote:

convenient that the video only shows the alleged 'allault' AFTER the incident - pityt he cyclist and his chums weren't man enough to show their part in this, no doubt hogging the road, cutting up on the inside and smacking the car and generally showing no regard for other road users.

as already suggested on here, cyclists too should pay a small cycle tax and have to pass a road safety test BEFORE being allowed on the roads.

26 Jul 2011 9:45 AM

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Most of you are Bonkers wrote:

Oh dear its like the horse arguement all over again.

Why do car drivers think they are so superior? You are polluting the planet surely that makes car drivers (me included) the lowest of the low?

We should be encouraging more people onto bikes and horses not punching them in the head.

That said I do think there is sense in making everyone do a cycling proficiency test... but having to pay for a license will push more people back to their cars which will cause more traffic which you lot will then moan about.

26 Jul 2011 9:42 AM

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bob wrote:

some cyclists are a real danger and as others have said flaunt road traffic laws to suit themselves. there is also often an air of arrogance from many. i am not saying this is the case here, but smacking the wing on someone's car is totally unacceptable and would incense anyone. Quite frankly, he got what he deserved. It is wrong that the car driver has been repremanded for losing his temper, but the the cyclist goes unpunished for provoking the assault by causing criminal damage. I though you were allowed to defend yourself against assault on both your person and your property. In the old days even a policeman would give someone a clip around the ear and send them home. Sadly, we are dictated to by a younger, inexperienced but know-it-all generation who tell the rest of us what is and is not acceptable, socially or otherwise (and i am only 40 but sick of it)

ultimately, if you are going to smack someone's car, you are going to get smacked!

26 Jul 2011 9:38 AM

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Courteous Road User wrote:

I think its fair to say that whatever people choose to walk, ride or drive on the Queens Highway,

everyone would be better off if a large proportion just didn't!

26 Jul 2011 9:35 AM

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Marc wrote:

Funny how the video doesnt show the actions of the cyclist BEFORE the driver got out of his car.

I have dents and scratches all over my car due to cyclists skipping red lights, then being "cut up" by me. as a result they drive past kicking the car or hitting it and shouting.

I have no comeback on these guys, they have no licence plates and no insurance. it i hit their bike and damaged it, they would have come back on me - fair?

Well done Nicholls - for standing up for yourself and your property

26 Jul 2011 9:11 AM

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Alex Sarson wrote:

While I agree with many of the comments here about cyclists on the roads, this was going way too far and was the result of the circumstances the man found himself under.

I do however think cyclists (generally) pose a great problem on the roads, and it's time they paid to use them, as well as having licences to use them, proving they know how to use the road correctly when on a bike.

Too many times I have cyclists squeezing by, cutting across me at traffic lights etc, dangerous behaviour.

However, I'll say again, doesn't justify lamping anyone.

26 Jul 2011 8:51 AM

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Peter Bancroft wrote:

Got to love the self-justification of the cyclist hatred. You wouldn't do that to pedestrians - why are cyclists different?

Oh yes, lycra. That makes assault OK then.

And why do you think he hit the car - just how close do you think a driver needs to be for a cyclist to be able to do that - seriously, go stand next to moving traffic and test it.

Its about time we ALL had more respect for each other on the roads, and that goes for cyclists too.

26 Jul 2011 6:23 AM

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Two wheel kamikaze wrote:

The number of times thst I have seen cyclists on the pavement, ignoring red traffic lights, squeezing up the inside of you when there is no room to do it, and generally having no regard for other road users you can see how this might happen.
Why no comment from the judge around the behaviour of slapping the car? Are we saying that this is acceptable then?

26 Jul 2011 5:16 AM

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Road user wrote:

Inexcusable behaviour Mr Nicholls.... But I so get where you're coming from. If Lycra biker punches your car that should be criminal damage.... self righteous eco tw*ts.

26 Jul 2011 2:58 AM

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Mr.Kippersmcgee wrote:

I think he has found the perfect solution to those a hole cyclists who take over the whole lane, traveling at 12 mph dressed up like Julian Clary on a particularly flambouyant day. They don't even pay road tax.

26 Jul 2011 12:46 AM

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