Kent's 'high-speed' trains find themselves in the political spotlight

Steve Kenward wrote:

South eastern "standard" commuters from Strood suffer by having longer stops at stations, more stops and more overcrowding, whilst the high speed links run near empty. The only time it has been full was during the issues with snow when it was the only service available. All South eastern pay for this high speed link with increased fares, and reduced services. Frequently we are held up at the Ebbsfleet junction to allow a high speed link to pass. Most people for Kent that commute work in the West End and City, St Pancras is useless for us, we have to pay for Tube services on top so yet another thing to pay for, where we can easily walk from Cannons st or Charing Cross. Lets not hide the fact that this ridiculous stops at Stratford, no accident when you consider that the Olympics are being held there, no use to us now and no use to us after.

28 Mar 2010 12:50 PM

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Keith wrote:

They all need to be held to task

I don't think something has upset me as much as Southeastern in a long time. I have been an annual ticket holder from Whitstable for 4 years. The trains got progressively slower to Victoria, and the service became worse. The carriages were filthy, the toilets were filthy, there was practically no heat, the only personnel were those there to check tickets - not to enforce any order against drunks, blaring music from ipods, and chavs. When I heard about the high speed train, I was very hopeful that it would reduce my journey to London substantially, but alas it turns out it is only about 6 minutes faster than when I first moved to Whitstable. Then I got transferred to work at Kings Cross and was forced to pay an extra £800 on top of the already inflated standard ticket price. Whitstable only has 3 HS1 trains journeys during peak hours only and we have to pay massive fare increases, while other locations have it running all the time (outside peak hours). If they cut out the stations that already have more frequent trains, I imagine my journey would come in at roughly 60 minutes. What gets me is that Southeastern is just irresponsibly unresponsive, the government is just not interested in anything but saying it has some high speed trains to look progressive for the Olympics and are happy to have the citizens pick up the tab, even during a recession. It is one of the few times that I have actually felt like there is no real recourse or justice. It's sickening - the government should allow competition and respond to what we are saying, and Southeastern should give us all a rebate so that we are actually paying fair fares. Why is everyone turning a blind eye to this?

19 Mar 2010 8:40 PM

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John wrote:

Conservitive problem

So the tories are up in arms about the quality of rail services?

Let's not forget that they where the MPs in power under a Tory government who drew up the original scheme for privatization. Remember it was tory MPs, county and borough councilors in power across Kent when the Southeastern contract was drawn up.

They've had the power, they've had the influence. They've failed utterly and miserably to represent their constituents over rail travel in any way in the last two decades. And now one of them does something we all rise to our feet and applaud. Aren't we the fools who make Kent their stronghold as we vote them back in again and again.

12 Mar 2010 5:24 PM

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Stephen Ryan wrote:

Longfield

I commute from Longfield and think the new timetable is a vast improvement. If people want to live by the seaside in Margate or Herne Bay then fair enough, but the downside of doing so is a longer train journey to London, so get over it. OK, trains are sometimes late or cancelled, but frankly I have better things to do with my life than witter on about the local rail service.

Finally, where was Roger Gale when the railways were privatised? You didn’t need much in the way of political or financial know how to understand that once under a profit led railway that small stations with a just a handful of passengers in his constituency were going to lose out.

12 Mar 2010 2:51 PM

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City Commuter wrote:

Maidstone services

The real scandal here is the service form Maidstone. I really honestly don't understand how SE can claim that there is no demand. Try getting a seat on an 8 coach peak Victoria train anywhere higher than Borough Green. It's impossible. By Swanley the aisles are packed.

Yet somehow, Kent's county town has the worst services over any other major town. Meopham to Victoria 34 minutes but Maidstone 1 hour 10? Tonbridge has 7 trains to 4 london stations arriving between 8 and 9 am but Maidstone (which 2.5 times the population) has only 3 to Victoria and nowhere else?

Look at any major town in Kent and compare it to Maidstone (and the other poor towns on that line). It has half the amount of trains to the least amount of stations at the slowest speeds.

Its a scandal and a demonstration of how rubbish and ineffective a county full of Conservative MPs have been in protecting their constituents rail services (remember they all campaigned against having the HRS go from Maidstone).

12 Mar 2010 1:21 PM

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Chris wrote:

Longfield & Meopham - The Real Reason

I thought he real reason was to co inside the closure f Black Friars, and come the review of the timetable in 2012 which is suppose to co inside a major signal and track upgrade (originally scheduled in 2009) That a separate stopping service will operate from Gillingham calling a stations including Longfiled Meopham

12 Mar 2010 9:50 AM

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Eric wrote:

Longfield & Meopham - The Real Reason

They are stopping at Longfield and Meopham as otherwise the 'fast' trains and the high-speed trains would both arrive at Rochester at the same time. There were three options. Stop at the two busiest staions, sit outside Rochester until the high-speed train went past or leave Victoria ten minutes later.

11 Mar 2010 5:18 PM

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Paul wrote:

The timetable needs a second re-cast

Such a radical overhaul of the timetable was always going to be problematic. Whilst the HS1 trains via Ashford have been a resounding success, those via North Kent have not as you pay more for a journey, that's not faster and takes you to the wrong place. What's needed is a re-cast of the timetable in May.
Reduce the number of HS1 trains via North Kent and divert them to Maidstone West to improve the journey options there. Then re-introduce some of the withdrawn fast Victoria and Cannon Street trains in the peak and off-peak. Then reintroduce some of the fast trains via Tonbridge for locals on the line to Ashford. Also the timetable needs to be more robust to cut out delays. Last but not least SET needs to focus on improving its cleaning of trains.

11 Mar 2010 1:58 PM

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Jennifer wrote:

Proactive MP - at last!

Well done Roger! It is so encouraging to have a local MP who takes an active interest in the problems of its constituents. Sadly, my local MP, Paul Clark (Rainham & Gillingham) who, incidentally, is a Junior Transport Minister, failed to make an appearance at the adjournment debate yesterday!

11 Mar 2010 1:57 PM

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CJ wrote:

HS1

I use HS1 from Folkestone every day and have just renewed my season ticket to include this at a cost of an extra £1,000 per annum. For this price I gain an extra 11 hours a week to spend as I like, by a combination of being able to get out of bed later, getting home earlier and less travel time. I accept that I am lucky enough to be able to afford to do this, but the people who complain that nobody wants to go to StPancras needs to consider the options. I work 5 minutes walk from Cannon Street, yet would allow 20 minutes to get there in order to get a seat. I now do Liverpool Street to Stratford in half an hour, which is a combination of walk and overground train, which costs no extra as my ticket covers all "London Terminals" which includes Liverpool Street. So the journey takes me 10 minutes longer to pick up the HS1 which then takes 40 minutes to get to Folkestone. I would never have moved to Kent if the HS1 hadn't been in the near future.
However, I do think that SET shoudl look again at the capacity on the "other" HS1 lines, as I gather from friends and comments here that it hasn't improved their lot at all......

11 Mar 2010 12:36 PM

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john seller wrote:

Longfield /Meopham

Give the new service a chance it's only been in place for a few months and in that time we've had poor weather (which HST did give additional service cover that was't previously there) and usual lower usage over Xmas and New Year. I think the increased frequency to certain stations and later running trains is actually good for the overall service , let's see actual passengers usage numbers after a year rather than a few months. A major timetable rewrite is never going to be perfect is it!

11 Mar 2010 12:28 PM

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Kevin wrote:

Bad and getting worse

For those unfortunate enough to live in Maidstone the new timetable is a nightmare. We have three stations and the only station we have a direct service to is Victoria. SE Trains say there is no demand? people are driving to Stapelhurst, Marden, Paddock Wood and Tonbridge to get a decent service to the City. It is not rocket science the take up is poor because the service is abysmal. As for the high speed link, why should commuters travel out to Strood on the Medway Valley line to get a high speed train in to St Pancreas and then have to get a tube back to the City, it is no quicker and a hell of a lot more expensive. If SE Trains want to look at passenger numbers look at your new High Speed service, empty! Give Maidstone the decent service it deserves and if it gets that, the numbers of passengers will justify it very quickly.

11 Mar 2010 10:21 AM

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Chris wrote:

Keep Signing the Petition

Keep signing the petition. I went to watch the debate, the petition was real aid. If firstly got MP to sit up and listen. Secondly the number of people signing speaks volumes when it debated. As Roger Gale commented it quite likely in a few months time we will have different government and different Rail Minster. The more people who sign the more chance of it being debated again in front of a new rail minister and the greater the chance of change happening.

11 Mar 2010 9:40 AM

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JN wrote:

Meopham & Longfield

The issue with these stations for trains on the Mainline is that after this train stops at these stations, there is another train scheduled to stop at these very stations 4 minutes after ours. What is the point of that? HS 1 is fine on the Sahford line, that is not the issue. The issue is the Javelin train on the north Kent Mainline. It simply does not work nor make sense. The passenger numbers will tell you this.

11 Mar 2010 9:27 AM

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DP wrote:

South Eastern Trains

We will never have a perfect rail service that suits everybody's requirements,but at last after many years of suffering a second rate service,we in Meopham finally have something good,fast trains,good time table,especially the later trains from Victoria,generally a better service all-round, admittedly the trains are still dirty,usually cold,occasionally late,but as I say nothing is perfect,now I find some petty minded individuals who cant tolerate a slightly longer journey time to make other peoples lives easier organising a petition against these trains,pathetic,the ratio of commuters against population of Meopham and Longfield compared to Herne Bay justifies the stops,there are more pressing probems to petition about than penalising people for where they live.

10 Mar 2010 11:04 PM

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Razor wrote:

Longfield & Meopham

So, "only a handful of passengers" disembark at Longfield and Meopham! Blinkers or what! I won't be signing this petition, I'll carry on with my own complaints to SE about freezing trains on slow services, but don't expect me to sign a petition that calls for Meopham and Longfield stops to be dropped from fast services. We finally have a decent timetable that not only provides fast trains to and from work, but includes a reasonable last train service so that we can actually enjoy a night at a London theatre/concert without having to worry about how we can get home afterwards.

10 Mar 2010 10:09 PM

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JB wrote:

South Eastern trains

I've never been a fan of Roger Gale, but he is spot on with this. If you don't happen to live near Ashford, the High Speed train has been a disaster for Kent commuters - less trains, more crowded trains and the final insult at a time when other train services are holding their prices, more expensive trains. Something needs to be done to rectify the situation, but it won't be, of course.

10 Mar 2010 4:40 PM

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Gary Williams wrote:

complaints to SET

I'd encourage everyone who has issues with SE's complaint responses to forward those complaints onto passenger focus - info@passengerfocus.co.uk

I'd further encourage people to post your horror stories on the forum - www.southeasternrailway-forum.co.uk as I'm using these to push MP's and others into reviewing the service.

10 Mar 2010 4:24 PM

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Peter wrote:

We want more!

If Mr Gale and others here don't want or need the Javelin trains to Thanet, we'll be happy to welcome them at double the frequency on the Folkestone/Dover services. It may not yet be perfect, but we're happy to be part of the 21st century!

10 Mar 2010 3:54 PM

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fj wrote:

HS1

Both nights this week so far, my husband's train has been delayed to allow the HS1 past, so he's then missed his connection. What kind of service is he paying for?

10 Mar 2010 3:42 PM

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Gary Williams wrote:

Excellent News

Excellent news. I'll writing to Mr. Gale to draw his attention to the many other issues of Southeastern train services.

10 Mar 2010 3:41 PM

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REBECCA HILL wrote:

CANNON STREET SERVICE

I wrote a complaint in January to SET regarding the lack of seats and the poor service on the cannon street service that runs through chatham. Due to a condition I have to sit when travelling even if on the floor which apart from 7 journeys in 4 months I have had to do. I received a reply on saturday - 8 weeks after my letter! This letter simply stated copied paragraphs that I was not entitled to any compensation and they can't be blamed for bad service in poor weather. The also said they couldn't guarantee a seat for anyone most of the time! Surely it should be an odd occasion when you don't get a seat, not 99% of the time.If it happens on a regular basis, they should be looking to increase the number of carriages. Further to this, they igonred the fact that other services ran fine during this same period, but yet Cannon street had delays or cancellations on even good weather days. I was told on 3 occasions that they just couldn't find a driver after coffee break time. JUst what you wnat to hear when waiting on a platform in -2 degrees. What a joke of a reply after waiting 8 weeks. I was told if I was unhappy with letter to write again! That should take us into 2011! Incidentally I had to get the High SPeed service last week due to the normal service being diverted and it took me 1hr 15 mins longer to get into work, as opposed to the usual 50 mins. I was late for work using the 'faster and more costly service'!

10 Mar 2010 3:36 PM

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Sarah wrote:

HS1

I just wanted to point out that even though HS1 has cut travelling time from Dover/Folkestone/Ashford to London it still has work to do to improve the service. In the last 10 working days it has only reached its destination on time in the mornings once, usually due to delay before reaching Ashford, or waiting outside St Pancras for a free platform. And for every minute the train is late in, i have to work an extra minute in the evening! It would be good if a full review of ALL Southeastern services was conducted rather than just particular lines.

10 Mar 2010 2:52 PM

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Robster wrote:

Kent's 'high-speed'

Hi,
Southeastern certainly needs some sort of Competitor. Being a Uni- Manic, it thinks it has a hold on the South East. Let's have some Virgin 'Pendolino' here for a couple of weeks.... that'll show the buggers up!
Then keep them here full time to keep fares competetive.
The Javelin's are great trains tho, even if a bit noisy.

10 Mar 2010 2:42 PM

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LT wrote:

HS1

Dear Commuter,
Let's face it, I have spent years driving back and forth across the Medway Bridge, and can count the no. of Eurostars that have passed me on my hand. The HS1 from Ashford etc does make sence and makes use of tax payers money in building the CTRL route. I have colleagues who travel from Dover/Folkstone to the City and clearly have gained time if not money from the introduction of the HS1 on that route.
It's use on any other lines is a total wast of money!!!! and in the long run South Eastern will ask the Government to pay for it out of the public purse!!! post Olpypics

10 Mar 2010 2:26 PM

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Commuter wrote:

At last someone takes notice - but will anything happen?

Very glad that someone is pickign this up - there have been various petitions, I have written to Southeastern on several occasions and also spoke to the managers who were at Cannon Streeet Station last week (they were supposed to be there from 8.00am but several were late - obviously travelling on their own trains.....). The new timetable is a shambles. There are fewer Cannon Street and Victoria trains - and the ones that are left are slower. There's obviously a valid view that those in Meopham etc now get a better service - but I have been commuting for 25 years and, call me cynical, but does anyone else find it strange that there are now less trains and they are slower exactly at the point that Southeastern introduce their new shiny high speed trains. The HS trains are pointless through the Medway towns - for the majority of people and unfortunately that's what this should be about - the majority. They only save someonthing like 10-15 minutes but by ending up in St Pancras any time saved is spent on the tube - and at extra cost.

Southeastern are verging on providing the type of service that Connex used to provide - ie awful. They lost their franchise. Sit up and take note Southeastern - the article says hundreds of commuters are upset but it's more like thousands. Oh, and it would be interesting to know if the person who posted how much they love the High Speed trains from Ashford works for Southeastern.

10 Mar 2010 2:02 PM

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MarySue wrote:

HST Timetable

Well done Roger for getting this debated so the travelling public might ascertain who actually runs the rail network in the Southeast. Travelling times have deteriorated over the years, the HSTs don't go anywhere where the majority of travellers want to get to and arriving at St Pancreas station serves no purpose whatsoever unless you need to use a connecting service from there. Passengers needing to travel elsewhere then face having to hunt around for the underground station, which isn't nearby and adds yet further to the travelling time reducing any time gained using the HST (and paying extra for the priviledge).

10 Mar 2010 1:54 PM

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LT wrote:

HST by Lisa

Dear Lisa, None of us on the Kent Coast Line dispute the fact that HSI using the CTRL line from Ashford is great news, as clearly a large amount of commuting time can be saved for a modest increase.
But as proved to South Eastern using their own time table's a commute from say Herne Bay to the City of London ( Square mile) takes longer via HS1 then it did prior to Dec 2009 timetable and costs £2000 per annum more. This is the basis of the dispute.
You are wellcome to have all the HS1's we do not want them

10 Mar 2010 1:44 PM

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Andrew wrote:

South Eastern timetable

So those commuters in and around the Gravesham arae finally get a decent service to London and someone immediately wants to take it away. Prior to the HS1 service it took longer than in the early 1900's to travel from Gravesend to London. Come on East Kent commuters you've had it better than us for far too long. Please don't begrudge us our improved service !

10 Mar 2010 1:26 PM

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Debbie wrote:

High Speed is the Biggest Joke

My partner travels on the high speed train in the morning and evening travelling from Thanet to London and more often than not he is late most of the lateness has caused him to have his wages docked, he has enquired about this and it turns out they have caught up with the normal train service and then have to follow this either into London or back to Thanet and is usually around 15-40 mins late each way.

10 Mar 2010 1:20 PM

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Caroline Petley wrote:

Go back to normal on the via Fav -Vic line

I think the High Speed should only be kept via Folkestone & Ashford as it's great for that area. Via the Medway Towns it's a waste of pathways. Put the "ordinary" trains back to as they were on this line and leave the HS train, where it actually has HS lines and does have time saving benefits.

10 Mar 2010 12:46 PM

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Chris wrote:

Longfied Meopham

• "Stop unnecessarily at Meopham and Longfield"??? What parochial nonsense! - where do you think the commuters from the SE to London are coming from? They are cetainly not travelling from Longfiled and Meopham, I regularly catch services which stop at these stations whee on a busy day a handful of passengers disembark. Longfiled and Meopham has the benefit of up to 4 rush hour servies to Victoria, Hernebay currently has the benefit of two direct services. The joint population of Meopham and Longfiled is about 12,000 the population of Hernebay is over 36,000. There need to be some balance of services to encourage people in rural areas to use the tain without reducing and failing people from Highly populated areas.

10 Mar 2010 12:26 PM

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Jamie Hooper wrote:

South Eastern Idoits

Roger Gale is without doubt to be applauded for his efforts. I have had numerous e mails with SET and they are an absoloute disgrace. I pay over £300 a month for the most inept, filthy untimely and completely inadequate service ever. In over 10 years of commuting SET should be axed immediately.

10 Mar 2010 12:19 PM

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P M wrote:

HST

I love the HST. I love that I can get on in Ashford and be in London in less than 40 minutes. It wouldn't be high speed if it stopped at every tiny station inbetween. I think it's worth paying the extra for HST. I never use anything but the HST now!

10 Mar 2010 12:18 PM

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Kevin wrote:

Good on you!

On behalf of all the long suffering commuters from Maidstone I thank Martin for highlighting the issue and Roger Gale for taking it to the House of Commons. I only hope someone finally listens!

10 Mar 2010 11:58 AM

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Lisa wrote:

High Speed Joke

I agreed that the powers that be at South Eastern and the DFT have not done their home work. I for one am sick of seeing an empty High Speed service and even more sick of being told that we are running late because this service has been allowed to overtake us so that they can be seen to keep to their schedule! Chris is also correct re. the extra money that commuters cannot afford to pay, let alone the additional journey time it takes to get into the City. WAKE SOUTHEASTERN AND DFT AND SMELL THE ROSES!! Good luck Roger and well done on the story Martin.

10 Mar 2010 11:57 AM

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George Heinkel wrote:

What Parochial Nonsense!

"Stop unnecessarily at Meopham and Longfield"??? What parochial nonsense! - where do you think the commuters from the SE to London are coming from? The service to London from Meopham is now 32mins and this is encouraging more and more people to use these trains for their commute. It's also providing a sensible three trains an hour which is both a better and more appropriate service. So maybe Gale should should be looking to improve the service as a whole rather than diminishing the service to others just to satisfy his selfish concerns.

10 Mar 2010 11:44 AM

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LT wrote:

High Speed Joke

WELL DONE ROGER !!!
It is nice to know that one, well respected MP stands up for his consituence ( election or no election)
Good Luck with the Debate this afternoon!!!

10 Mar 2010 10:35 AM

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Chris wrote:

High Speed Joke

Some one at South Eastern and the DFT has not done their home work. I’ve seen this High Speed Trains run with only a handful passages through Sittingbourne. They clearly have over looked the majority of their rush passengers commute to the City and West End and if where to use the High Speed service on my line would increase their journey times by 30 minutes as well as pay an extra £1,500 for the privilege. Surely South Eastern must have some say on what and where there services run. If the DFT told South Eastern to Stick there heads in a Gas oven would South Eastern do this!

10 Mar 2010 10:09 AM

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Nick wrote:

Slow train coming

Good story Martin. Southeastern really need to to understand they can't go on running second class services at first class prices any longer! While it's good to have fast, comfortable and modern trains on our line,they need to run to places where people want to go to. Cutting out stops in north Kent will help speed up trains considerably. In fact first and last stop at Faversham services would help ensure the non Javelin trains could do Victoria to Ramsgate in around 90 minutes?

10 Mar 2010 9:30 AM

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John Cherry wrote:

Bad South Eastern Timetable

A big well done to Roger Gale MP for taking up the plight of North Kent commuters in respect of the awful December timetable and subsequently appalling timekeeping. As usual South Eastern come out with the same old excuse that is the responsibility of the DfT - so who is running our train service?

10 Mar 2010 9:19 AM

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