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Thursday, May 24 2012

Margate and Dartford named as worst 'ghost towns'

jstephens@thekmgroup.co.uk

Margate and Dartford have been named among Britain's worst 'ghost towns'.

New figures released today show the Thanet town has a staggering 36.1% of shops lying empty while Dartford has seen 26.3% of its outlets close down - the national average is just 14%.

There is some consolation as Margate no longer tops the list of worst small-sized towns in the UK, losing last year's top spot to Leigh Park in Hampshire. The figures from the Local Data Company also show an improvement of 1.3% on the last set of figures.

Shopkeepers in the seaside town also suggest a corner has been turned.

Anne-Marie Nixey who owns home-furnishings shop Qing in the Old Town said: "Those shops that were going to go for whatever reason have gone and now other things have replaced them. If you look at the High Street in the last year, there's lots opening up.

"They may not be open now but they are being taken or going to be taken soon so you're only really seeing what you can walk into, whereas a lot of people around here know of people that are going to be opening in the next few weeks or months."

Anne-Marie also says the new figures should be taken with a pinch of salt:

"You can play with statistics all you like. It's interesting that Margate becomes all of Westbrook, the High Street, the Old Town, Cliftonville and everything else in between that you can squeeze in when it's needed to be.

"I've been here three-and-a-half years and you can't get a space in the Old Town now.

"People are bending over backwards to find retail units in the area and people are now moving up into the High Street."

It's a view shared by the owner of Margate Gallery in Lombard Street, Janet Williams: "The Old Town has sprung up from a completely empty-shop zone to a now-thriving hub of cafes, restaurants and beautiful little individual shops.

What do you think? Join the debate by adding your comments below"I think it's a leading light in terms of the shape of what the High Street could become.

"We're really passionate about what we do, we sell beautiful things, you can get nice food and nice coffee. It's a great area to wander around and that's already beginning to spread up the High Street.

"We should be looked at as a very positive model and people should stop slating Margate on account of the empty shops. That was then and now is beginning to look very different"

Whatever the future for Margate's High Street, Kent's Green Party has called for shops lying dormant for over a year to be turned into homes.

The appeal comes in response to fears that home ownership in the South East will fall to as low as 64% within 10 years, as an entire generation are effectively locked out of the housing market.

Spokesman Steve Dawe said: "A combination of factors is keeping shops empty for long periods in towns throughout Kent and Medway.

"These include high commercial rents, which continue to rise, declining household incomes and the growth of internet shopping as consumers shop about for the best prices."

"Internet shopping may mean that some types of retail outlets disappear altogether from our high streets. This already appears to be happening with bookshops, electrical retailers and music shops."

Wednesday, September 07 2011

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  • Roger (Chatham) wrote:

    I wish to correct myself. "The Kiss" is by Rodin.

    02 Oct 2011 10:18 AM

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  • Roger (Chatham) wrote:

    I shall be visiting the gallery to see "The Kiss by Gaugin" at some time so I haven't been put off coming. I might even see the 2 Days Later Film Festival in October.

    Exaggerating the problems in Margate will only put people off but it is right to highlight in order to solve them. I am optimistic and hope to see Dreamland open with its Scenic Railway.

    Why not see my little film on vimeo.com called "I Believe In Margate".

    01 Oct 2011 11:49 AM

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  • Evan wrote:

    i think margate is the worst place to live!!! i have been the once and i will never return!!!

    16 Sep 2011 9:28 AM

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  • Margaret wrote:

    Hmmm let me think shall I buy that item I want from Amazon at a cheaper price, in stock and free delivery.

    Or shall I venture into war torn Margate and suffer vile customer service, out of stock and get mugged.... decisions decisions!

    12 Sep 2011 10:58 AM

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  • Roger (Chatham) wrote:

    I don't live in Margate but a few years ago I found it a bit depressing due to many reasons already stated. However, I visited again this year for the day to see the new Turner Gallery. I was a little disappointed that the new gallery seemed like an inside out TARDIS: big on the outside and showing little on the inside. It did look good, though. Let's see more stuff exhibited in more open rooms!

    An acquaintance there pointed out the beach bar and I stopped for a pint and a contemplation.

    I went on to find a quaint little tea room but it was shut as it always is which is a shame as it would add a touch of class.

    Margate has had to re-invent itself to find new markets. I feel that things are slowly moving in the right direction but not helped by high rates previously mentioned or attacking those who are socially disadvantaged in our society.

    It's time Dreamland was up and running as I think it would pull in the nostalgia crowd as well as others.

    I see the Channel Theatre has pulled out by splitting in two and moving Chalkfoot at Folkestone and closing Channel at Margate but at least there is the lovely Theatre Royal - one of the oldest theatres in the country (b.1786). This also has two film festivals to promote the making of new short films and tomorrow's filmmakers.

    I will leave you with a quote from Churchill: "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning" - as far as regeneration is concerned.

    11 Sep 2011 10:47 AM

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  • Dartfordian As Well wrote:

    Clive - it is people like you who are ruining the high street. support your local business, or go to america you consumer w-h-0-r-e.

    Dartfordian - you are right, tesco are sitting on that land to gather value. dartford cant take on their lawyers, it'll be david and goliath.

    11 Sep 2011 10:36 AM

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  • Dartfordian wrote:

    I was offered a shop on Lowfield Street Dartford, but I could only rent it for a maximum of six months, oh and Tesco - who own the land these shops are on - can build whenever they want and would give me a month's notice.
    I decided not to bother. Who wants a shop on Death Row Lowfield Street. The Council need to take on TESCO who OWN the land. Oh and Dartford council need to offer subsidory rents to small businesses. The civil servants aren't business people - they're history, or media studies graduates and in dartford the staff don't even have qualifications, they select from a panel from the local hostel.
    Tesco are the root of all evil in this country and the sooner people start realising this, the better.

    11 Sep 2011 10:31 AM

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  • Toilet Roll Queen wrote:

    Greedy councils have driven the High Street into oblivion with their high local rates and taxes, well done you parasites.

    10 Sep 2011 7:23 PM

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  • Clive wrote:

    We have to face up to the fact that he High St is a lost cause.

    People have busy lives and Hight St opening hours don't cater for that, also parking charges are very expensive.

    If I need something from a High St store I will go to an out of town place like Westwood or Bluewater or order it online.

    The only time I would go to a town High St would be for independant specialised shops and the only place really to offer that is Whitstable or Deal.

    10 Sep 2011 5:45 PM

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  • jim wrote:

    I have lived in Dartford all of my life and the town centre is a total hole!! The shops are all boarded up (the regeneration thing has been in the pipeline for 10 years!!), The restaurants are awful and the nightlife is bad too. Even the swimming pool is disgusting! The likes of maidstone and even Gravesend have really made an effort in redevelopment and with the nightlife as that's where a lot of revenue is made! Datford has the worst town centre...after Swanley of course!

    10 Sep 2011 3:58 PM

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  • Julia wrote:

    What your report is not saying about Dartford is that quite of the small shops in one area where shut down on purpose due to being compulsary purchased by the Council for a Tesco redevelopment which to date has not happened due to public outcry. 6 years later they lay abandoned & derelict along with homes which were also bought as they lay in the path of the Tesco store planned.

    09 Sep 2011 12:31 PM

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  • Rob Taylor wrote:

    @ Daisy

    As has been pointed out before, I think you have stumbled on the root cause of Margate's woes.

    "We have next to no police presence only when theres something going on. Shoplifters are rife and alowed to get away with it or are dealt with in house because its a small amount not worth logging. A high number of unemployed groups of young men with their staffy dogs. A large amount of drunks and druggies which are always visibly seen.Along with the young single parent brigade. To top it off endless charity shops and pound shops."

    The shops that are there in the high street are serving their social economics. The area has a high number of unemployed, immigrants and people who do not have disposable income. In turn, they have less money in their pockets. The country is bust, and we seem to all be forgetting that there has to be some tightening of the belts to stop us going the way of Greece or Ireland. The policies of the last government are now having to be dealt with by the current one.

    More and more shops close, as there is less to entice those with money into the town centre, add to that the cost of parking and it all adds up.

    Maybe one thing that would make the town more competitive is free parking, as you get in WWX. The charges do seem to be off putting.

    09 Sep 2011 12:23 PM

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  • fred wrote:

    look at the thanet council....freedom of information.....where has all the investment gone?

    09 Sep 2011 9:35 AM

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  • James wrote:

    With no money in the area and places such as Pfizers closing how is the area supposed to revive.
    Then we have the comfortably numb folks wanting Manston to disappear with the employment prospects as well. Some people are just too selfish. And yes I lived in Ramsgate when the USAF sent jets out at two in the morning and it never bothered me. Just remember if you buy property near an airport there will be noise.

    08 Sep 2011 11:21 PM

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  • Gabriella Coscia wrote:

    As for the seaside towns in kent

    How people used to laugh at Deal's town centre and say how awful it was

    Thirty years ago people moaned whilst Deal languished at the bottom of the coastal towns now Deal is better than Margate, Ramsgate, Dover and Folkestone. Sure Deal has chains and independents and value stores but it also has an M and S store that is done up unlike most of the other towns where they closed and where I believe Dover's is to become an M and S Outlet

    08 Sep 2011 10:03 PM

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  • Christine wrote:

    Maybe the shopkeepers from the Margate Old Town (as they say they are doing so much better than the town centre) should talk to the shopkeepers in the town centre and explain to those that are rude or uninterested in their customers that they are giving the rest of the shops of Margate a bad reputation. If just one shop turns away paying disabled customer, then why would that customer along with their friends and relations, continue to shop at Margate. All Thanet shopkeepers should keep in mind that;
    Under Part 3 of the Equality Act, it is unlawful for anyone providing a service to the public in the U.K. to fail to make a reasonable adjustment without justification to the physical features of their premises if a disabled person finds it impossible or unreasonably difficult to access those premises.
    When it comes to overcoming a physical feature, a service provider has four choices: They can either
    · remove the feature altogether
    · alter it in some way
    · provide a means of avoiding it; (such as replacing steps with a ramp or, if it is reasonable for it to do this, a lift)or
    · provide the service by an alternative method.
    Unfortunately, these shopkeepers rely on their customers not wanting to take the difficult step of taking court action to gain their human rights.
    However, Margate just can't afford to turn away their disabled and elderly customers or any other customers for that matter.

    08 Sep 2011 10:03 PM

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  • Gabriella Coscia wrote:

    Robster

    I don't believe those figures as any website is as good as the company updating it

    Yes voids are low in Canterbury but they are also low in Deal too

    But there are still lots of empty shops in Canterbury and it is a worry that people like Ollie and Nic didn't succeed in Canterbury as they are still paying the rent on that empty void they are still going in Brighton and despite a pre pack admin and I liked their merchandise as I got a purse from them

    There just wasn't the trade in Canterbury for them too upmarket for purses

    The Discovery store was a temp letting it's been let to Ecco who are moving from Mercury lane to a two shop unit in Marlowe Arcade

    Still many many empty stores Warehouse next to WH SMith and a few others I can think of

    08 Sep 2011 10:00 PM

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  • Daisy wrote:

    I ve been a trader in Margate High street for 15 years. It has got slowly worse and worse over the years. Lack of help and interest from the council and the build of Westwood Cross have crushed High Streets in particular this one.It appears no matter how loud you shout,it all goes on deaf ears. The vast amount of money that was wasted on the Turner Building could have been spent wisely else where on more important issues,like keeping this town alive,clean, safe and somewhere you would like to work and live. Instead its a long slow death of watching shops that have worked for years to build up a business just boil down to nothing.The Old Town lets face it is part of Margate High street, we all should be working together instead of the great divide between the High street and the Old Town, which appears to be the boulster for the Turner Contemporary. Lets see if the Old town is as busy in the middle of winter when its blowing a gale.This town looks the way it is because no one seems to care. We have next to no police presence only when theres something going on. Shoplifters are rife and alowed to get away with it or are dealt with in house because its a small amount not worth logging. A high number of unemployed groups of young men with their staffy dogs. A large amount of drunks and druggies which are always visibly seen.Along with the young single parent brigade. To top it off endless charity shops and pound shops. What does this say about this town? Its about time we lost the everything for a pound mentality and like everyone else deserve to earn a decent living.

    08 Sep 2011 9:44 PM

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  • Robster wrote:

    @Gabriella C
    Shopproperty.co.uk has 56 shops for rent in Canterbury, but this is a badly maintained website. I look every day. The only serious shops that are empty are the old Esprit shop in Whitefriars and Ollie & Nic in the Marlowe Arcade. Other shops are empty but are all now rented except the old shoe shop in St, Margaret's Street. The thing is with Canterbury, if you take on a shop, there are no rates for the first 6 months and an extremely low rent, so that you can see/feel if the business is worth its graft. These are called 'pop-up shops'. Ollie & Nic didn't last because of staff or merchandise. Same with the 'fun store'. They had the same offer of trying for 6 months. Although the shop is empty, it is being re-decorated for the next users. Ecco shoes have taken the next shop.
    In effect, shopproperty have 56 shops theoretically, but in reality there are only 4-5 at most.

    @ Christine.
    You will perhaps be pleased to learn that these hiderences for the disabled, are illegal.
    Shopkeepers, have to provide a ramp to avoid steps,as well as Council's are obliged to provide lowered pavements at all crossover points. Something else that Thanet seems to have a knack to ignore.

    08 Sep 2011 8:53 PM

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  • Christine wrote:

    I'll address this to you Don, as no-one else seems interested in looking to help to solve bad experiences my daughter and many others have in Margate. "Simon", "Mick" and "Don" are only interested in their own private row and scoring points against each other!
    We parked behind the Turner Centre in the tiny carpark where there are just 6 disabled places and no other parking allowed. Next time you go, try parking there, then try to access the path leading to the zig-zag slope to the Turner Centre. You will find you have to take your wheelchair to the corner at the traffic lights to find a dropped curb facing out to the middle of the crossroads. Very dangerous!
    Westwood Cross is okay for disabled access but it doesn't have a PET SHOP! So it is true that you can't find the individual shops that are available in Margate, however, if it's also true that Margate has a high percentage of age 50+ and disabled people, then the town centre shops need to change their attitude and where possible, assist access to their shops for their customer base. And, the council must play their part too, as it is all very well to have dropped pavements and paved areas in the town centres but what about sorting out dropped pavements around housing areas outside the town centres. If wheelchair users can't get to the towns, then they can't shop there either.

    08 Sep 2011 8:13 PM

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  • Gabriella C wrote:

    Robster,

    "Canterbury has may be two empty shops". Really check out shopproperty.com

    It has 56 stores up for lease or to rent

    I can think of more than two empty shops in Canterbury the recent closure of Ollie and Nic which lasted 6 months in Canterbury.

    However, I hope Margate gets back on it's feet but it will never be what it was. Sadly Westwood has seen to that

    The malls have much to answer for the decline of town centres and not just Margate or Dartford. Lesser towns have suffered too only Canterbury does well in it's own right may be Ashford too with WC.

    08 Sep 2011 8:10 PM

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  • Catherine wrote:

    Cliftonville has it's problems but please don't call it a dump. The more Cliftonville is talked down by the media and residents of Thanet the less chance we have of making it shine again.
    Please let's focus on some of the more positive elements to help business thrive and help sustain and eventually regenerate the area. Some Cliftonville business are lucky to be very well established with a loyal customer base and I hope we do enough to attract people to support the newer ventures.
    I take my hat off to anyone doing their bit to regenerate the wider Margate area and ask everyone to support efforts by shopping locally where possible.

    08 Sep 2011 8:00 PM

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  • Robster wrote:

    @ 6.52 Simon Moores
    Another duck and dive manouvre!
    The business rates are not Council Business.

    @ 7.17 Gabriella C
    Bluewater takes more money in an afternoon than Margate High Street does in a year! Canterbury has maybe 2 empty shops, look again.

    @6.52 Simon Moores The world has moved a long way since Margaret Thatcher and Harold Wilson.
    With the exception of Margate High Street.

    I have never known a Council to be so negative about their street that should be the main attraction in the Town. It doesn't matter how much one complains/reminds the Council, nothing has been touched for years. Ah, correct me, those hard stone benches appeared a few years back.
    I think all the TD Councillor's ought to take a trip to Herne Bay, Whitstable, Rye to see how successful a seaside Town should be run.
    I am sure they are all aware, just not interested.

    08 Sep 2011 7:48 PM

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  • Bob wrote:

    Only this past week those who earn over £150,000 want the 50p tax in the £ scraped, just think what a boost to business it would be if the business rate was cut by half. I bet our high streets would not look so glum then. I can fully understand what Mick and Dave are saying and I agree 100%.

    08 Sep 2011 7:44 PM

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  • Wanda Rogers wrote:

    Clearly some facts stated are misleading - Ian at 4.28pm, 8 Sept - as a Margate old town trader I do have rent to pay, not as you state "the reason the old town is booming" is because little or no rent is charged. And no, my business is not booming & I also have a proper job that keeps the shop open. Persistence is what is booming in this creative quarter & there is a bucket load of it that is infectious.

    Margate 'Old Town' traders don't rely on TDC or any other body to do something about anything - we do it ourselves - for example clearing snow last winter in Market Place, only to be told we'd be liable if anyone slipped where it had been cleared!! Yes, we do things to then be told we can't because of red tape, but that doesn't stop us doing something else next.

    08 Sep 2011 7:37 PM

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  • Nick, Whitstable wrote:

    Would very much like to think Margate has finally turned a corner. Too often though, hopes are dashed in Thanet when some grand ideas are put forward and flounder. I agree with Simon Moores comments about inward migration and a benefit dependency - these are problems for central government to tackle and I worry the govt is not moving quickly enough to address them. Tax and benefits systems need to be overhauled quickly to instil some sort of greater work incentive. Direction of labour, as in world war two, would be another thing to introduce. Benefits in this country cost about the same as our annual deficeit and total more than the budgets for defence, education and health combined. Tells you something about where budgets should really be cut?

    08 Sep 2011 7:31 PM

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  • Gabriella C wrote:

    In the case of Margate and Dartford both are dying why - because of large shopping centres that were allowed to open nearby - Westwood Cross and Lakeside and Bluewater near Dartford.

    I suggest re-invention and managing the retail decline is more appropriate. Even Canterbury and Ashford has empty shops may be look at reduccing the rates and the cost of the leases and we might get a more interesting independent mix of retailers

    08 Sep 2011 7:17 PM

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  • Simon moores wrote:

    Mick and Dave appear to have problems following the thread, so as my final remark I will refer back to my statement that if a council-based solution exists then I can help find it.

    The world has moved on a long way since Margaret Thatcher or indeed, Harold Wilson! Clearly some people have not and have missed the last fifteen years of Labour government a near bankrupt country that our grandchildren will be paying for.

    Business rates are imposed by central government so lets put that behind us too and concentrate on the welfare dependancy that leads to a recessed local economy, here and everywhere else where high streets are shown to suffer

    08 Sep 2011 6:52 PM

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  • Don wrote:

    Christine where didyou Park as I found access to the Turner Centre to be fine I am in a wheelchair and find no problem in the Turner Centre or Margate Old town. Westwood Cross is fine butyou cant find the individual items that are available in Margate, Just chain store repetitive items WX is the same as any shopping centre. Private individuals run and stock stuff you would never see at WestwoodX.

    08 Sep 2011 6:14 PM

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  • Mick wrote:

    @ Mr Moore says......
    .....[I repeat, the council simply acts as a collector of business rates for central government]

    Mick Says....
    Guess what government brought in the much higher business rates and kept most of the rates money and gave very little if any back, to the areas where the money came from??? You have guessed right!!! Thanks a Million Maggie again.

    08 Sep 2011 6:14 PM

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  • Dave wrote:

    What an amazing councillor you have over at Margate,
    "I'm not that hard to find and as other businesses in Thanet will know, if a council-based solution exists I can normally sort out a problem within 24 hours."

    So why has the high street been run down for more than a day?, why is Dreamland still derelict after all this time?, why has nobody asked the amazing councillor to sort within 24hrs?

    Its boasts like this that leave the voters in Thanet in despair, boasts that cannot be true.

    08 Sep 2011 6:09 PM

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  • Christine wrote:

    People over 50 shop, as do disabled too, but you can't critisise them for shopping at WX rather than go down their local Thanet high street shops, where far too many shop staff really don't care if they serve you or not, particulary if you happen to be over 50 and/or disabled.
    A pet shop owner in Margate High Street refused to give access to my disabled daughter and told me that she did not want wheelchair users in her shop. We also went to the Turner Centre and found no dropped pavement access from the purpose built disabled carpark. Apparently, there was a wooden ramp..but it got stolen!! Many of the shops and cafes do not supply wheelchair ramps where there are steps. So it is no wonder that the over 50's and disabled stay away from Thanet's high streets.

    08 Sep 2011 5:38 PM

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  • Simon Moores wrote:

    Writing that TDC doesn't care Ian is quite untrue!

    I repeat, the council simply acts as a collector of business rates for central government and moves are now afoot to allow local councils to keep some of this money and have some flexibility in regard to business rates, which would be a huge step forward.

    Quite why you think the council's chief executive should be involved in your project I don't know.

    If you are experiencing problems of a planning or regulatory nature then your first port of call should be your local councillor or if that fails, you come directly to me.

    I'm not that hard to find and as other businesses in Thanet will know, if a council-based solution exists I can normally sort out a problem within 24 hours.

    08 Sep 2011 5:03 PM

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  • Ian wrote:

    As a new small business owner on Margate High Street I find it unbelievable that TDC just don't care about the High Street. The old town is thriving and looks great; I wish the same could be said for the High Street!!! We could build a lovely cafe style area in the high street if TDC just could be bothered to do anything about it.
    RATES, well what a joke. The shop units are still being valued as they were in the good old days before Westwood Cross despite the fact that foot fall is less than half. Is it any wonder that more and more shops are closing and empty? The reason the old town is booming is they have little if no rent or rates to pay, however this does not apply to the High Street. I have spoken to TDC any many occasions and their attitude is, they just don't care. The council has no vision for the High Street as far as I can see. This is shown by the fact that the Chief Exec won't even come and see a new business owner that is planning to invest money in his business to bring something new and exciting to the High Street. After all this said, look further than the single mums the drunks and the Turner Centre and Margate really is a beautiful town that is full of history. Maybe one day it will get a council that really cares about it and nurture back to life, I just the traders that are here day after day will survive long enough to see it.

    08 Sep 2011 4:28 PM

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  • Simon Moores wrote:

    Mick may be correct in saying that inward migration started under Thatcher but it accelerated out of sight under Labour.

    From what you say you are assuming that people stayed here and the statistics show otherwise.

    What in fact happened was the decline in tourism and the arrival of the package holiday, killed-off Thanet's traditional B&B and Hotel trade.

    These buildings were bought by property developers who turned them into flats (Cliftonville has the highest density of one beds in the country)

    This new space was then used to house people from the cities as our migrant population exploded and neatly solved the government's problem at the time, that it could not afford to build social housing in the millions required by a rapidly growing population but it could pass the problem to the private sector by encouraging the property development market as a risk-free investment funded by housing benefit.

    The rest is history I'm afraid and now we have to live with the consequences of the policies and the debt.

    08 Sep 2011 4:22 PM

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  • Simon Moores wrote:

    I suspect that Robster is deliberately missing the point. It's nothing to do with ageism and everything to do with poverty and disposable income.

    Any local economy is supported by the income of those that surround it. If as a majority group, they rely on benefits or on the state pension, then the local economy will struggle.

    We live in a society where 1/3 of households receive 1/2 of their income from benefits.

    In Cliftonville and Margate, 39% of the population are on benefits, 10% are on disability 18.5% are on incapacity.

    This has everything to do with shops. Retail business has to cover its costs and pay its taxes and as such requires enough passing trade to make it viable, even profitable.

    If local people don't or can't spend money then business suffers and high streets show the consequences in closed shops.

    08 Sep 2011 4:14 PM

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  • Mick wrote:

    @ Simon Moores says....
    ....[In order to have a thriving local economy, you need a working population with a disposable income. In Margate central and Cliftonville West, we have the highest density of over 50s in the country, high unemployment, high levels of disability and a transient population with a 34% annual churn.

    Now apply these statistics and others to the local economy and you will see the problem faced by local retail businesses, which is why Westwood X has proved so attractive.]

    Mick says....

    It was Thatcher who moved the down-and-outs out of the big city's to 'Dole-by-the sea' Then as there was not enough council houses for them [because the Tories were selling them off] The Tories brought in 'Homes of multi able occupancy'. Hence the TRUE reason why Cliftonville became the dump that it is today. Thanks again Maggie.

    08 Sep 2011 4:05 PM

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  • Robster wrote:

    I don't believe it, now he is being age-ist.
    It's all the older people who keep Thanet going.
    What a statement to make.
    I am a Pensioner and I now feel highly insulted at these comments. These aged ones have usually worked all their lives and want to retire to a place like Thanet to live out the rest of their lives in peace. I cannot support a Council that supports drug addicts and single mums.
    No misunderstanding here Councillor. You and your lot are supporting the wrong ones.
    However, Councillor, this has nothing to do with EMPTY HIGH STREET SHOP's.

    08 Sep 2011 3:59 PM

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  • Simon Moores wrote:

    You can only believe what you want to believe about the council and so-called 'Toff' Tories but it makes very little difference to the facts.

    In order to have a thriving local economy, you need a working population with a disposable income. In Margate central and Cliftonville West, we have the highest density of over 50s in the country, high unemployment, high levels of disability and a transient population with a 34% annual churn.

    Now apply these statistics and others to the local economy and you will see the problem faced by local retail businesses, which is why Westwood X has proved so attractive.

    Now you can believe that people like me have no idea of what's going on and are stuck in some ghastly 1970s BBC drama or you can accept that a great many good things are actually happening which go unreported and reflect how hard councillors, council officers and residents are fighting back to regenerate Margate and tackle its manifest problems at every possible opportunity.

    08 Sep 2011 3:46 PM

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  • Mick wrote:

    Well are there some hypocrites talking on here!!!! The reason Westwoood Cross is busy is because YOU Jo Public like it and shop there YOU have made it what it is. Before WC car loads of YOU went off to Canterbury to shop rather than go down the local towns high streets where shop staff could not care less if you wanted serving or not.
    As for the Tories I do not know of ONE thing that they have not increased in price or ruined when they are in power, they really are the party of grab-all-and-give-nothing-back. Most Tories in family businesses have had everything fall into their lap handed down to them they have not worked for it, they then have the audacity to try and kids us that they know what they are at. Over the years and now for that matter the Tory councillors could not run a bath let-alone a successful Council.

    08 Sep 2011 3:33 PM

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  • Serena wrote:

    @SimonMores

    "Finally, Margate, like so many other seaside towns has been the victim of 20 years or more of inward migration from the cities which has suffocated its local economy with an intolerable welfare burden."

    I think this is true of a lot of seaside towns, unfortunately. Their income is based mostly on tourism.

    @Peter

    The Turner Contemporary is the only reason I went to Margate and I found it enjoyable.

    @Mick

    I agree that it will take time for it to take effect.

    To be honest, it was the state of the town which made me depart quickly after the exhibition.

    08 Sep 2011 3:28 PM

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  • Robster wrote:

    I wonder just what the fraction is? half? three quarters? 6 7/8ths?

    As always, a typical unclear TDC answer, I'm afraid.
    We encourage Benefit seekers in this area, which is totally wrong! Benefits must be cut to a point where it becomes neccessary to get a job of work, to earn money to survive, and NOT get handout's.
    As for the unmarried Mum's, contraception, sterilisation, keep your legs tightly closed. We don't want your brats, and we certainly don't want to pay for them. As for those figures of £7000 - £9000 sudsidy? For what?
    However, Councillor Moores, your comments do not have too much to do with closed High Street shops, so please keep them on theme.
    I visited the High Street today and although the upper part (pedestrian only) was quite busy, the lower High Street was very quiet with only Primark, 21 shop, and the chicken shop (KFC) showed any sign of life. The Old Town is changing, but to what? I couldn't detect much of a change.
    There were some incredibly drunk people on the Town Hall steps near Cecil Square at 1PM. I don't think they were Councillor's but they might have been. Not much of a "nice" change there either.

    08 Sep 2011 3:14 PM

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  • Vasily Sikorsky wrote:

    Margate and Dartford are far from being alone in having run-down shopping centres. There's no single reason for the decline - it's an amalgam of out-of-town shopping, the internet and the decline of independent retailers. But with political will and imagination, these obstacles can be overcome. The inward investment will soon follow.

    08 Sep 2011 3:12 PM

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  • Simon Moores wrote:

    Anne Marie is quite right when she says that people need to visit the Old Town to see what's really happening to regenerate the area in the shadow of Turner.

    I worry when I see some of the statements here presented as fact. For example: "The council should have built Westwood X on the Dreamland site"

    The council doesn't own the Dreamland site!

    I could go on but if you visit my personal weblog at my thanetlife weblog you will find some of the facts about Thanet from time to time.

    More importantly, another 'Belief' to deal with. Yes, the council receives millions in council tax but only a fraction is kept for local use.

    Thanet is completely welfare and grant dependent in areas like Margate Central and Cliftonville West and I roughly calculated last year that every man woman and child on the island is subsidised to about £7,000 a year and in some areas close to £9,000.

    The local council is battling hard to regenerate the local economy in the face of every statistic of despair where we lead the country or the south-east; domestic violence, teenage pregnancy, under age alcohol abuse and more.

    For much of this we can thank the last government, agencies and the cities who have passed their own problems in our direction to house, treat and educate.

    So from my point of view we are working hard with the tools and finances we have available to improve the quality of life for all without promising any quick fixes. The council is now one of the best performing in key areas of improvement and Margate shows clearly that regeneration, while a slow process that demands confidence and investment, can work if we believe in ourselves and a better future.

    08 Sep 2011 2:20 PM

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  • Anne-Marie Nixey wrote:

    Alas Danser, it seems that you didn't get to the Old Town, or visit my shop, google Qing Art, and look at my business, not your run of the mill place and set in the beautiful thriving Old Town. Look at our Old Town website and our Facebook page and realised what you have missed. I am saying it how it is, but you have to see for yourself I'm afraid. Did you go to the Greedy Cow? Cupcake Cafe? Margate Gallery, Blackbird? Museum? Lifeboat pub with real ale? No, ah you just stayed at the sea front then...shame.

    08 Sep 2011 1:40 PM

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  • Wanda Rogers wrote:

    If anyone is slightly interested in what the Old Town creative quarter has to offer then visit its website before you make the journey in person. This comment section won't allow a direct link so just google Margate Old Town.

    08 Sep 2011 1:06 PM

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  • danser wrote:

    Ann Marie ,i think you are looking through rose tinted glasses.I paid a visit to Margate two weeks ago never again,dog mess and rubbish on the front,the posh garden shed was about the only nice thing to catch my eye ,i was told this is a gallery as for the £ type shops i believe i would rather go to Westwood shopping centre.

    08 Sep 2011 12:18 PM

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  • sarah wrote:

    they shouldnt have built westwood cross they should have built it on the old dreamland site then maybe shoppers would stay in the town centre

    08 Sep 2011 11:43 AM

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  • Albie wrote:

    @ Robster

    This'll shock you - I agree!

    "Freedom for Eton!"

    08 Sep 2011 11:17 AM

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  • Robster wrote:

    @ Albie
    Whatever. Conservatism is dangerously close to Communism.

    08 Sep 2011 11:10 AM

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  • Albie wrote:

    @ Robster

    "Come the day citizen!"

    08 Sep 2011 11:04 AM

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  • Robster wrote:

    @Albie
    As a supporter of the Labour Party, not my only claim to fame (apparently), I am merely making a point. It's not me that needs to grow up, it's the People who see the world through Tory pink tinted spectacles. You people live in a dream world.
    Nothing to do with revolutions or Citizen Smith, old chap what what eh!
    It is my strong belief that Thanet could and should be run better!
    The High Street is a shambles, Criminals and drug addicts are imported here.
    Nothing has been done to prevent or cure these Thanet accentuated problems, for years.
    I can only find one answer to this, and that is the complete incompetence of whoever is in charge. ie., Tory party!
    Am I wrong?
    I don't think so.
    It is the poor misled Resident's who have to put up with all this.
    Conservatives have to be the culpable party, because they have led us in to this rot situation.
    It's time for a change in the running of Thanet.
    Any Labour Councillor's agree?

    08 Sep 2011 10:54 AM

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  • Norsewind wrote:

    Westwood cross killed the town centres of Martgate, Broadstairs,and Ramsgate .. and when Primark moves up there that will be that ..

    08 Sep 2011 10:52 AM

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  • Dave wrote:

    Over the last few years Thanet has had millions in grants from various government agencies, from the EU and from KCC. Other towns in Kent have had little of this money and yet apart from the Turner Building (which is costing us £2 millions per year to run), what has Thanet got to show for all this cash?

    08 Sep 2011 10:38 AM

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  • Albie wrote:

    @ Bemused.

    I didn't miss the point at all. I think Robster made it very clear that it's "all someone else's fault" - or did you miss the point I was making?

    With regard to generalisation of political supporters then I suggest you read some of Robsters past points on this site which essentially are like reading an old "Citizen Smith" script - "come the reveolution, power to the people, freedom for Tooting" etc etc yaaaaaawwwwwnnnn

    08 Sep 2011 10:29 AM

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  • Bemused wrote:

    @ Albie

    You seem to have somewhat missed the point that Robster was making. He was commenting on Thanet District Council – which is and has long-been Tory-run.

    I find your true Labour supporters comment very offensive, I for one do not expect everything handed to me on a plate and nor do any of my acquaintances who are also Labour supporters.

    Your kind of generalisation would probably be more at home on the Daily Mail site.

    08 Sep 2011 10:22 AM

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  • Albie wrote:

    @ Robster.

    How can you blame the Tories? How long have they been in power compared to the "thug class" Labour Government?

    Grow up, if you don't like what's happening then do something - but no, a true Labour supporter expects everything handed to them on a plate... and then still moans it's not enough.

    08 Sep 2011 9:58 AM

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  • Robster wrote:

    @Simon Moores

    I rest my case -
    No mention of the millions collected in Council Tax monthly. Then blaming the Labour-ites for taking it all. Well, who is taking MORE NOW and giving LESS back?
    Over riding any criticsm.
    Ignoring the obvious missing factors of Council Management.
    This is one man 'fobbing off'
    the actuell dilema that Tory run Councils cause suffering
    throughout England, not just Thanet.
    Give a person such a job, and they become immune to Resident's wishes and go off on some 'green cheese moon' mission with tunnel vision and blinker's toboot!
    Which has never done any good for the Country/County/Town ever!

    08 Sep 2011 9:53 AM

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  • Simon Moores wrote:

    There is huge effort and investment going into Margate and surrounding areas, despite the 'Cuts' referred to here.

    The council simply collects business rates from central government and passes these on. If anyone should be blamed it's the last Labour government which imposed the present scheme of collection.

    The Old Town of Margate is thriving thanks to the Turner effect and tourism is increasing.

    As for allegations here of council corruption and graft, you might as well believe the moon is made of green cheese. Some people still do but this is 2011.

    Finally, Margate, like so many other seaside towns has been the victim of 20 years or more of inward migration from the cities which has suffocated its local economy with an intolerable welfare burden.

    This is the challenge that we must be solve through both central and local government action and money or grants alone don't offer a solution which embraces society as a whole.

    08 Sep 2011 9:16 AM

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  • Matt wrote:

    The Dartford figure is a little misleading, as they include a whole street (Lowfield Street) of empty units that have been purchased by Tesco in readiness for a new Tesco/retail complex. Take those units out of the equation and the figure is below the national average.

    08 Sep 2011 9:11 AM

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  • Jamie wrote:

    But Thanet council offer no help for small businesses who want to open a shop. My little shop in Ramsgate costs me £16000 a year in business rates !!

    08 Sep 2011 9:04 AM

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  • Neal with an "A" wrote:

    I blame the local councils. If they dropped the amount they charge in rates to entice new businesses into the towns this would attract more people to open up businesses. The more shops open selling diverse goods, the more people go to that town. It would also clean up the look of the towns because the shops would be looked after and not boarded up or have white paint across the windows and a sorry looking shop front, and it would help the local economy and the country’s economy in the long run.

    At the end of the day what is better 50% amount collected for rates, a busy clean town centre with all the shops open looking clean and vibrant, or nothing collect in rates, and a street that is full of boarded up, dirty shops and no one in the town centre.
    To me it’s a no brainer!

    08 Sep 2011 8:52 AM

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  • Robster wrote:

    No excuses, it's solely Thanet District Council who are to blame for this one. TDC has been Tory run for .... many years, and this has had the effect that the whole Country suffers under a Tory regime. Things - everyday things - just get overidden and suffer under the 'cuts' syndrome. Only in Thanet, it has been their excuse for decade's. The Turner Centre will not ruin Margate as much as the Thanet District Council have done.
    It takes years of greed and corruption to do that successfully, and they have succeeded!ityadia certifi

    08 Sep 2011 8:35 AM

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  • Car Driver wrote:

    Gravesend has a council which appears car user friendly (Windmill St car park free after 6pm and all weekends) and the the big stores choose to locate there. Medway council has made a big error in its anti-car stance for Chatham and punitive parking costs and Dartford is true example of the same.

    08 Sep 2011 8:30 AM

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  • Mick wrote:

    @Peter

    Give it time mate the Turner centre is and will bring more people to Thanet not just Margate. Trees don't grow overnight but they do grow. However with the economy being like it is and those in government new to the job and and like Thanet councillor's not sure from one day to the next what they are doing it is no wonder that the window cleaners in Margate go round with sanding machines.

    08 Sep 2011 8:02 AM

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  • Peter wrote:

    As I understand and as we were all told the Turner exhibition building was going to turn Margate around and boost visitor numbers and trade in the town, So what has happened after all of that money was spent on that building ? People that I have spoken with have told me that there is nothing in there but empty spaces.

    08 Sep 2011 5:47 AM

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