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Thursday, February 09 2012

Cllr Ken Bamber's 'Irish joke' proves costly for Medway Council

Cllr Ken BamberBrian Kelly

It must be one of the oldest jokes in history, and it took two years to get to the punchline.

It began in December 2007, when Cllr Ken Bamber (Con) told an 'Irish' joke during a break in a meeting to discuss an appeal against dismissal.

Union official Brian Kelly took offence at the use of the word "Paddy" and filed an official complaint.

Now agreement has finally been reached between the two and Medway Council has agreed to pay compensation to Mr Kelly, who was its full-time Unison official.

Details are being kept private, but it is thought the agreement was reached at the conciliation service, ACAS, after it was referred there by the Employment Tribunal.

The council's standards committee, which is designed to maintain high standards in public office, discussed the matter in private.

Only those councillors on the committee have been given details of the agreement. One of the conditions bars either man from discussing the terms of the deal with anyone else.

Cllr Bamber  was chairing the appeal hearing when the joke was told during a break in proceedings.

The Irish-born union representative said he considered "Paddy" was an offensive word and racist in intent.

Cllr Bamber scribbled a note saying he apologised, but it was alleged he would not sign it or say for what he was apologising.

Mr Kelly formally complained and the committee began investigating, but had to adjourn the case while it went before the employment tribunal and legal experts. Neither man was present to hear the committee discussions.

Mr Kelly, who left the council when his job was made redundant during the period of the investigation, was not contactable. He has received a discrimination payment from Cllr Bamber as well as the council's payout.

The offending joke:

"A man walked into a Dublin bar and saw a friend sitting with an empy glass. 'Paddy can I buy you another', he asked, to which Paddy replied - 'now what would I be wanting with another empty glass?'"

Monday, February 08 2010

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Comments (26)

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  • Bill W wrote:

    Kent sense of humour

    The 'Irish Joke controversy' is very relevant to a study I'm carrying out on British Regional Humour. So far virtually all the jokes I've been able to collect from Kent are racist, sexist, anti-everything and everyone, much the worst in Britain. I'd be delighted if someone could tell a few reasonably nice jokes with a Kentish angle about yourselves or neighbours. Any offers?

    19 Feb 2010 4:04 PM

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  • Paddy Quinn wrote:

    Comment

    Has no one stopped to think that the person mentioned in the joke may actually be named Paddy? I know I am and a real irishman and proud of it!

    14 Feb 2010 10:14 PM

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  • Patrick O'Hanlon wrote:

    Irish joke

    I'm very pleased that Mr. Kelly objected to the racist joke and won damages. Irish "jokes" may appear to be harmless, but are actually insidious attacks on the collective intelligence of a neighboring island. No matter how funny they appear to the non-Irish amongst us, they are in fact as offensive as "jokes" about jews, people of color, the disabled, etc. and have no place in a modern society. It's about time they were given zero tolerance.

    14 Feb 2010 5:11 PM

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  • Sue Hunter wrote:

    Paddy!!!

    I'm a northerner and get called 'The Northern Monkey' and I don't take offence!!! Some people should lighten up a bit or get a sense of humour! It's so sad to think you can't have freedom of speech anymore. Also far too many people jumping on the 'COMPENSATION' band waggon. No wonder our country is in a state!

    14 Feb 2010 12:54 PM

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  • George Trent wrote:

    Paddy

    So how, precisely, will the receipt of a large amount of taxpayers' money compensate Kelly? An apology would have been perfectly adequate, though uneccessary in my view. If Kelly is offended by such trivia he should get another job. Both parties are as bad as each other, Kelly for his gratuitous "offence taking" and the council for their drunken sailor spending antics with our money.

    13 Feb 2010 9:18 AM

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  • Greg Coogan wrote:

    Dead right!

    The union official was quite right to protest. There was no need for such a stupid stereotyping comment. Mr. Bamber should have known better; he is getting well paid enough to be able to respect and observe the laws of his own country.

    I was walking down a road near Dublin years ago when a car with a British registration pulled up and the driver said. "Excuse me Paddy, which way is Drogheda?" i replied. "If you're smart enough to know my name, why are you lost?"

    12 Feb 2010 3:12 PM

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  • Paddy Power wrote:

    Paddy Power!

    The English only tell jokes about the Irish because they are afraid of the superior Irish intellect and deep down really wish they could be more Irish! :-)

    11 Feb 2010 4:31 PM

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  • Danny wrote:

    Joke

    What's the difference between a Unison jobsworth with a sense of humour, and a unicorn?

    One's a mythical creature. The other's a unicorn.

    The above was found at:
    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/localgovernment/2010/02/should-irish-jokes-be-allowed-in-town-halls.html

    11 Feb 2010 1:51 AM

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  • Les R. McQuart wrote:

    context is everything

    The joke in and of itself is not particularly offensive. Indeed, it could be read as showing 'Paddy' as being quick-witted rather than stupid. However, the context is the important factor here. Why would the person chairing an industrial relations hearing, knowing that a participant in that hearing - the advocate of the employee - was of a particular nationality, think it appropriate in a break during proceedings to tell a joke in which the central element of humour was that person's ethnicity? Is this the conventional way for English people to interact with Irish people? Tell jokes in which Irish people's ethnicity is the defining element?

    The honourable councillor strikes me as a bit of a pub bore.

    10 Feb 2010 11:06 AM

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  • Patrick Cohen wrote:

    Fred Kite in the 21st Century - Medway Council

    It is time that the chief executive is held to account for the breathtaking shambles that is Medway Council - 'a fish rots from the head'.

    This episode puts the Peter Sellers film: "I'm alright Jack" into perspective.

    How much has this plundering of the public purse cost the taxpayer? It is a disgrace.

    10 Feb 2010 9:04 AM

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  • Ian Stewart wrote:

    Irish joke

    I think that Mr Kelly ought to get out more - he's pathetic. Union leader, what a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    10 Feb 2010 12:59 AM

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  • jennie wrote:

    what a joke

    i have never heard something so stupid in my life essex girl jokes will be next or knock koncok jokes what sort of society do we live in if we didnt tell a few jokes do you know what i say go and get a life we love joke and usually the joke is on me what out i might want compansation

    10 Feb 2010 12:22 AM

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  • chris pannell wrote:

    Unison is a joke-free zone

    Spike Milligan (remember him?) made a living telling Irish Jokes, the best-seller "Puckoon" was one long Irish joke, he even called his 2nd wife "Paddy". Mind you he WAS Irish and he didn't have to contend with union blow-hards hiding behind their self-righteous indignation. Oh yes, he liked to mock humorless officials and wannabe world dictators, did Spike. Laughing and joking did me more good than being in a union ever did - that's we need a few more like Spike - and a few less like Kelly.

    09 Feb 2010 9:10 PM

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  • John Fannon wrote:

    Irish humour

    When I saw this article in newspapers this morning. It seemed so ridiculous that I wondered whether there was another aspect, not reported.

    But no. Mr Kelly / Jobsworth gets a handsome settlement for complaining about a so called racist Irish joke. I am part Irish and I thought it was a very funny joke.

    It's not derogatory. I used to work in a pub as a student and that's just the sort of repartee that the Irish customers would make. It indicates a quick wit.

    By the way, the Irish have Kerry jokes and the French have Belgian jokes.

    09 Feb 2010 1:28 PM

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  • Tracy, Chatham wrote:

    Actually

    Actually, the more I read this the angrier I get. Why should MY money (our money!) be used to compensate Mr Kelly when a simple apology from Cllr Bamber, as was given, should have sufficed? Why did Mr Kelly feel the need to seek further redress? Was this simply about a stupid joke or were there other motives behind Mr Kelly's complaint? I really am sick to death of all this compensation culture and political correctness. The apology should have been enough, so why am I, as a council taxpayer, left out of pocket because of Mr Kelly? It's not like the joke was actually offensive in the first place if you read it.

    09 Feb 2010 12:37 PM

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  • Tracy, Chatham wrote:

    Watch Out!

    The PC police are out to get you! What a complete non-story. And still not a peep from the Messenger on Paul Clark's expenses claims.

    09 Feb 2010 11:53 AM

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  • O'conall wrote:

    THE IRISH JOKE

    HELLO is everyone forgetting this was a man telling a joke he was not attacking another, being nasty,or racist, he was telling a joke,do mother-in-laws sue or wifes or animals or the famous English man,Scotish man etc who are in jokes, NO i think not, for heavens sake a joke is just that it was a funny joke not sick not evil just a little joke.

    09 Feb 2010 11:32 AM

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  • Ben MacGabhain wrote:

    Paddy?

    Paul O'Rourke - I don't think the term Paddy itself is what was found racist. Its possibly the usual intent of Irish jokes to portray the Irish as thick. It a racial stereotype that has been perpetuated down the years - would a racial stereotype about any other recognised ethnic minority (and in law, the Irish are recognised as such) be acceptable?

    09 Feb 2010 9:42 AM

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  • Bill wrote:

    Pc nonsense

    I wonder what Paddy Ashdown makes of this absolute nonsense.

    09 Feb 2010 8:59 AM

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  • Paul O'Rourke wrote:

    Paddy?

    There is nothing offensive or racist about the word Paddy. To suggest otherwise is utterly ridiculous.

    Like others I would like to know how much of taxpayers money was handed over by the council.

    08 Feb 2010 6:18 PM

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  • edward reddin wrote:

    offensive joke

    I have lived in England for 42 years and have worked all that time in the public services.I am old enough to remember "no blacks,no irish" signs .I laugh all the time but i don't see why the irish should be the butt of this tory councillor's " joke". Well done brian for standing up to for what you believe .

    08 Feb 2010 5:08 PM

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  • VH wrote:

    PC madness

    I find this story quite distressing....... who can I file a complaint against for compensation?
    It seems anyone can claim for anything nowadays. This is, in my opinion utter nonsense, another silly reason for a compensation claim.
    I agree with Deborah Allen and would very much like to know how much this has cost us council tax payers.

    08 Feb 2010 4:35 PM

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  • Rob Taylor wrote:

    Nonsense

    Firstly, I speak as someone who is proud of his Irish roots before the racist flag is waved.

    I wonder if Brian Kelly will be coming after the KM now for telling everyone the joke!

    And now for some light relief, here's a joke thats nearly as funny as this case...

    What do you call an Irishman who has no sense of humour?

    Brian Kelly.

    08 Feb 2010 4:03 PM

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  • B.K. wrote:

    Paddy jokes

    I cant believe it,iv been called a paddy most of my life as im part of a large irish family and have never taken offence, its a joke for heavens sake and tis a shame that another irish person cannot see it for what it is,an if you cant laugh at a joke how sad is the world,i laugh at myself and if it makes others laugh tis better than being sad.Im proud to be irish and think the world would be a very miserable place without jokes.

    08 Feb 2010 2:31 PM

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  • NOREEN CURLING wrote:

    racist joke

    WELL DONE BRIAN,GOOD FOR YOU .MEDWAY COUNCIL HAVE COUGHED UP IN THE PAST FOR OTHER " COMMENTS " SO WHY NOT NOW FOR THE IRISH !

    08 Feb 2010 2:17 PM

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  • Deborah Allen wrote:

    PC gone mad

    Perhaps the Medway Messenger could establish - under the Freedom of Information Act – how much of my council tax has been squandered on settling this dispute? Surely, as a council tax payer, I am entitled to know. Remember, this is not Medway Council money. It is our money.

    08 Feb 2010 2:07 PM

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